If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by trek_futurist, Dec 14, 2011.

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  1. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    And does anybody else find it funny that the OP is attacking the new crew for too being "arrogant"--while declaring that anyone who disagrees with him is not really a Star Trek fan?

    Again, some of us like the new movie. Some of us don't. Fair Enough. But can we please stop arguing that this means some of us are more Trekkie than others.

    As I've written before, Star Trek was never supposed to be some kind of exclusive club intended only for true believers.
     
  2. Alrik

    Alrik Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    WHAT the hell is that supposed to mean?

    Says you. They'll never suspect its me in my full on Gorn costume. I WILL GET MY TREK CRED BACK!
     
  3. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sorry, Trek Futurist, but you personally have no say as to what Star Trek must or must not do. That's not your call to make. It's also not your call to tell people that they are true fans or not, based solely on your own personal feelings about two movies.

    Now if you want to state your own opinions as to whether the new movie was great or lousy, fine. We all do that. But to flat-out come in here and tell us all what we need to believe is crossing the line. I certainly hope a moderator comes along and sees this blatant attempt at flaming.
     
  4. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    While playing the real fan card is of course utterly pathetic pointing out that there is a core set of Trek principles which the last movie has not really cared about is a valid point. McCoy being robbed by his ex-wife, a bunch of Starfleet cadets brawling like Klingons after a gallon of blood wine, a Vulcan deserting a fellow officer instead of putting him into the brig, the movie had some disturbing vibes.
     
  5. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Commodore Commodore

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    Agree.
     
  6. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Well, we already argued this ad nauseum in another thread, but I still think you're applying a bit of double standard here. I recall Starfleet officers brawling in "Shore Leave," "The Trouble with Tribbles," Picard's run-in with the Nausicaans, etc. Just to cite one issue. And don't get me started again on how Vulcans have always been capable of behaving badly. (Hello, T'Pring! Really, Sarek, you haven't spoken with your son in eighteen years? Just because he joined Starfleet?)

    The new movie was set in an optimistic future in which beings from diverse backgrounds and planets came together in common purpose to defend an Earth that was NOT a post-atomic wasteland or authoritarian dystopia. Kirk and Spock and the others overcame their differences to set out into the final frontier together--with lots of pulpy fun and adventure along the way.

    Seemed like Star Trek I grew up on.

    And now I really need to get some real writing done!
     
  7. trek_futurist

    trek_futurist Lieutenant Commander

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    Do not use semantics to refer to someone criticizing a substance-less caricature that bears the namesake of star trek as being what, in fact, those who defend the tripe of this 2009 travesty are. Which is closed minded and ignorant of what the impetus of star trek is.

    And that is (as a reminder to those who missed it) humanism, intelligence, philosophy, tolerance and science.

    I find it quaint when someone attempts to dissuade the discussion by using reverse semantics to refer to people who question the merits of a mindless, substance-less movie as what they, in fact, are. Very quaint indeed.
     
  8. trek_futurist

    trek_futurist Lieutenant Commander

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    If this is true, why are the characters portrayed as 20th century throw backs with knee jerk reactions to everything?

    Wait, kirk went from a cadet to captain on a training mission....

    ugh, nevermind.
     
  9. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    This thread may be thinly veiled, but flame baiting just the same. You get two Tek fans together in the same room, you're going to get three different opinions of what constitute being a "true-Trek fan". Get off yer' high horse, true. At the end of the day, it's still just a TV show/movie. I'm not about to go and bury all my Trek stuff in my back yard because of your proclamation.

    I award ye your new Romulan name: T'roll
     
  10. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's the most agreeable thing you've said so far.
     
  11. Alrik

    Alrik Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^
    This.


    I remember leaving the theater thinking that this one really felt like the TOS grew up with. On the other hand (and I love TNG) I remember leaving the theater after NEM, and thinking to myself, 'wow, that really sucked'.
     
  12. trek_futurist

    trek_futurist Lieutenant Commander

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    Are you sure?
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    There was more "humanity" in the first 10 minutes of ST09 than the previous 10 films combined.
    What would that have to do with what Greg wrote?
     
  14. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    As I like all other aspects of the movie I don't belong into the ST09 basher faction. It's not a double standard, these few scenes simply made me feel uneasy. If you can thoroughly enjoy the movie that's great.

    About your examples, the key difference to "Tapestry" is that Picard learned from his experience with the nice dialectic twist that he had to go through it to, to the edge of life and death to understand his foolishness. Kirk on the other hand is basically rewarded by Pike for brawling and encouraged to continue along his path. You are the writer so tell me, in a conventional Bildungsroman aka coming-of-age story (last one I read was Auster's "Moon Palace") the protagonist goes through some experiences that significantly change him such that he is a real adult at the end of the story, doesn't he?

    Or take the cadet with whom Kirk brawled and who later arrested Kirk in engineering seemed to have held a grudge over years ... just because he does not like a farm boy in his exclusive club?
     
  15. 22 Stars

    22 Stars Commodore Commodore

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    I call troll on the OP and will now hide all posts by him/her/it.
     
  16. Alrik

    Alrik Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :guffaw:

    I nominate this for post of the week. :techman:
     
  17. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    From a narrative standpoint, I don't see Kirk being rewarded for brawling. I see it as the point where Kirk hits rock bottom and realizes that he wants to do more with his life. Pike wasn't saying, "Wow, you kick ass. You should be a Starfleet captain." Pike was saying "You're better than this and I'm going to give you a chance to prove it."

    As for that other cadet . . . well there are always going to be jerks in any organization, even Starfleet. Remember Ben Finney? Now that was holding a grudge!

    And Finnegan and Captain Styles and the racist guy in "Balance of Terror. Nobody ever said that everybody in Starfleet is perfect and gets along perfectly with everybody else.

    Remember all the squabbling among "The Galileo Seven"?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2011
  18. Gojira

    Gojira Commodore Commodore

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    My sentiments exactly. I do like Nemesis but Star Trek 09 was much better.
     
  19. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    I agree, your reading of the scene is far better than mine.
     
  20. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Thanks. For what it's worth, I appreciate that we can debate this stuff on a literary level, without arguing about which of us is a bigger Trekkie!
     
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