If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by trek_futurist, Dec 14, 2011.

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  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    You actually think that Roddenberry didn't want to make money?

    You know what else was popular at that time? Space exploration. You know who America's newest heroes were? Astronauts. So a show taking the tropes of Westerns set in space would be something the execs would look at. They liked it enough to green light a second pilot. A somewhat unusual move in those days.

    To quote Khan, " I know something of those years. Remember, it was a time of great dreams, of great aspiration". ;)
     
  2. Herkimer Jitty

    Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's nice.

    How does liking ST09 not make someone a real Star Trek fan?
     
  3. trek_futurist

    trek_futurist Lieutenant Commander

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    I'm not saying Gene Roddenberry didn't want to make money, that would be foolish, because money means the continuation of his medium.

    BUT

    He could have made money a lot easier doing traditional television.

    Now let me remind some of you from the older generations what was NOT popular back then. Racial tolerance! And that is one of the first things Gene fought to represent in the bridge crew!
     
  4. trek_futurist

    trek_futurist Lieutenant Commander

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    Because it doesn't make treksense.
     
  5. Herkimer Jitty

    Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How does liking ST09 not make someone a real Star Trek fan? This time, with at least one paragraph, and without any glib catchphrase words.
     
  6. trek_futurist

    trek_futurist Lieutenant Commander

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    The sad part is that I explained it all in the first post.
     
  7. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No, the sad part is that you've been able to troll your BS for 20 pages.
     
  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Actually that was the network's suggestion. Diversity was something they were looking for. See Trek's sister show Mission Impossible and I Spy as examples.

    ETA: The book you need to read is Inside Star Trek by Justman and Solow. It might burst a few bubbles though.
     
  9. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Like Star Trek.
     
  10. MasuPu'a

    MasuPu'a Lieutenant Red Shirt

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  11. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As Santa Kang mentions...

    Baloney. That's just a myth that's long since been busted by Herb Solow and Bob Justman, who cited an August 17. 1965 letter from NBC V.P. Mort Werner memo that encouraged programs to feature "minority" characters.

    Furthermore, Solow related:
     
  12. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    re Roddenberry fighting to have a multi-ethnic cast on Star Trek.

    Since this keeps coming up time and time again, I feel it's time to just reproduce the full text of the 1965 (before the series was greenlit) NBC memo that illustrates that Roddenberry had to do no such thing.

    Here it is, emphasis mine:
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2011
  13. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    However it came about, Trek's racial toerance message is a powerful one - and it's one that Star Trek '09 encapulates better than any Star Trek has before! There is more (human) racial diversity in this movie than any prior Star Trek one. Look around on Earth, on the Kelvin, at Starfleet Academy, and on the Enterprise.

    Case in point: Captain Robau. A Middle-Eastern guy commanding a Federation starship.

    Hell - even members of Nero's Romulan crew were given assorted lumps and bumps, indicating Romulan racial diversity.
     
  14. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    ^ It was definitely nice to see Romulans (as well as many other aliens) looking different.
     
  15. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Nothing about casting former and contemporary enemies, Japanese and Russians, in this letter.
    You cannot claim that the progressive ideas of Trek came out of one of these studio head who considered "The Cage" to be too cerebral and wanted Trek to be more of a space western.
     
  16. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Nothing about featuring former and contemporary enemies, Japanese and Russians, in this letter.
    You cannot claim that the progressive ideas of Trek came out of one of these studio heads who considered "The Cage" to be too cerebral and wanted Trek to be more of a space western.
     
  17. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Rumor has it that Chekov came about because the Soviet newspaper Pravda noted that there seemed to be no Russians in the future.

    http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/chekov.asp
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This. A fascinating read that doesn't always paint Roddenberry in a flattering way but does shine a light on his abilities as a TV producer.

    All you have to know about Roddenberry is this: he wrote lyrics to Alexander Courage's end music so he could claim half of any royalties that Courage earned from it. Sounds like a stand up guy to me.
     
  19. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Pretty sure the "cerebral" thing is a bit of a myth as well. The pilot was well received by the executives. They did have problems with some of the casting (Like GR casting his then mistress) and the character of Spock. Who, ironically would be the shows break out character.

    As for casting Japanese and Russian characters. First I don't think Sulu was Japanese in the beginning, but was "pan Asian". He became more Japanese later one. Secondly the war had been over almost two decades by the time Star Trek was made. American servicemen ( like my father) had been living in Japan since the end of the war, bringing home Japanese culture and "war brides". I spent half my childhood living in Japan. Japan was also our strongest Far Eastern ally and a staging point for operations in Vietnam and electronic intelligence aimed at the Soviets and Chinese.

    On the Russian front, we had Nina Talbot's character in Hogan's Heroes and Illya Kuryakin in Man From UNCLE. Both predate Chekov.
     
  20. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd like to point out that while Sulu was meant to be pan-Asian, his name itself is Filipino. Thus I'm stickin' to the idea that he's part-Filipino.
     
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