If you don't think Nemesis is better than Star trek 2009....

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by trek_futurist, Dec 14, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Location:
    in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination

    that's a pretty big "only."
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua

    But regardless of situation a baby Picard is going to rise to lead others. Of course morality is going to be different because Shinzon only knew of Romulan/Reman morality.
     
  3. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Location:
    Peach Wookiee
    Okay, guys, break it up. Chem, a friendly word and a friendly warning.. please refrain from namecalling, even mild if you can. trek_futurist, in future, please refrain from bias until a moderator has had reasonable time to receive and read and decide on a course of action. Contrary to popular myth, Trekkies have lives. ;)
     
  4. nightwind1

    nightwind1 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
    Bullshit.

    I've been a Star Trek fan since 1966, when I was 5 years old. I have more money invested in Trek novels, behind-the-scenes books, comics, collectors glasses, games, artwork, clothing, et al, than I do in my house and truck. I've had 2 Trek fan fiction stories published, one of which won "Best Star Trek Fiction of the Year" at MediaWest, the country's largest fan-fiction convention.

    I LOVED ST09. So obviously, your opinion amounts to the stuff I clean up after my dog when he eats roadkill.
     
  5. nightwind1

    nightwind1 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
     
  6. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Location:
    Peach Wookiee
    It's obvious to you, nightwind1, but not to everyone. Let's dial it back, everybody. We have passionate fans on either side of the fence.

    I, for one, LOVED Trek 2009. It's the movie I've been watching the most lately as it helps me stay awake when I'm working on a project. I like this alternate timeline/reality/universe quite a lot. But that doesn't mean I love the prime universe any less.
     
  7. trek_futurist

    trek_futurist Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    There is a book called 'the physics of star trek' which I recently had the pleasure of reading, and in it the author, a prominent physicist, compares the physics and science of star trek to 'real life' physics and concludes that, not only does star trek (meaning TNG, TOS and VOY mainly) get the science right, but has predicted certain scientific phenomenon that has come to pass. So I see your statement as being fallacious, unless it is referring to that once in a while error of specifics.
     
  8. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Whatever Lawrence Krauss has written, he has certainly not written that phasers or warp drive exist, merely why they might be possible.

    I think we have to distinguish between science, fictional technology based on real science and magic.
    Trek is not hard but soft sci-fi. Some of its technology like impulse drive is based on fusion power, other technology like the transporter acknowledges a problem that would exist in real life via the Heisenberg compensator. Genesis or red matter are basically pure magic.

    I think it is nice but not necessary that Trek tries to tie some of its fictional technologies into real science. The absence of it is certainly not a deal-breaker. Or is City on The Edge of Forever bad because it does not explain how the Guardian actually performs this neat trick? Is FC bad because we don't learn more about these funky chronitions that do the trick?
     
  9. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Location:
    in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination

    yes, this is an important point that is often overlooked. Star Trek, like Star Wars and Doctor Who, is soft sci-fi, not hard sci-fi.


    The emphasis is on the story, not the potential realism of the technology or science involved.
     
  10. trek_futurist

    trek_futurist Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    Anyone who doubts what I said about the science of star trek please give a reading to the physics of star trek. A reputable physicist wrote it. And while he admits that not everything is immediately conclusive in the field of trek science, he does fill in the gaps and terminology where it needs to be and explains how a leads to z, for example, when it comes to warp technology, just how much energy would be necessary, etc.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    The science is there to serve the needs of the story, not the other way around.
     
  12. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    I'd say it is nice as long as it stays in the background. It's like with a period piece, you want some technobabble in the background to make it feel like sci-fi. If it comes too much into the foreground we get one of these VOY 'tech saves the day' moments.
    In my opinion ST09 managed this pretty well, the technobabble term "external inertial dampener" is quasi-explained via the image of a handbrake such that it does not feel like technobabble as code for insiders ... which is, if we are honest, a territory into which TNG and VOY sometimes moved into. Or in other words, the "Big Bang Theory" jokes about Trekkers are not totally unjustified.
     
  13. trek_futurist

    trek_futurist Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    The reason star trek employed so much scientific jargon is because it is in keeping with the premise of the show (TOS, TNG and VOY primarily).

    Which is as a medium to express not only ideas but languages of reason. And science, like logistics, is a language of reason. Which is why it is a very important component of star trek that should never be brushed aside.

    It shows that humans have evolved to seek out truth, in whatever form, through evolved systems of scientific exploration.

    This is what I liked so much about TNG. It didn't insult the intelligence of the viewer by coming up with things (like red matter for example) without at least trying to explain it in some rational, conclusive way. Episodes like cause and effect illustrate this.
     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    Two simple words: time travel.
     
  15. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    And because market research showed that most fans are scientists in some form or another. I'm not kidding.
     
  16. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    I disagree, Trek is above all about enlightenment (to be strict it is about self-critical enlightenment as the bureaucracy of the Gulag and the concentration camp is also consequence of the enlightenment period) and not science.
    Take TWOK, McCoy's rant about the Genesis device turns out to be correct in the next movie. Take the fuzzy 1990-2160 fictional history of Trek, science run amok via the genetic redesign of humans into Augments as well as the killing of people with radiation sickness has lead to immense suffering.
     
  17. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Oxford, PA
    No, but you keep ranting that anyone who likes the new movie isn't really a Star Trek fan, has no taste, probably likes TRANSFORMER and TWILIGHT, etc. You've been on the attack against anyone who disagrees with you since your very first post.

    Are you sure you aren't a Klingon?
     
  18. The Overlord

    The Overlord Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    No offense, but you seem far too forgiving of Nemesis and other Trek movies many people consider bad (not too many people think Star trek V is a good film) and are far too harsh on Star Trek 11.

    Exactly how are Nemesis and Star Trek V good films, how are the plot holes in those movies forgivable?
     
  19. nightwind1

    nightwind1 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
    :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:

    There's a reason it's called technoBABBLE, you know.
     
  20. trek_futurist

    trek_futurist Lieutenant Commander

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2011
    I think you have the cause and effect backwards. TOS made a lot of people science fans, and this fandom culminated with TNG and VOY.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.