If VI had featured Saavik instead of Valeris as the traitor

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by xvicente, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. blueziggy

    blueziggy Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    chekov as the traitor could have worked very simply with out many re-writes. think about it. the grand conspiracy's plan was simple, b.o.p. fires on kronos 1, kronos 1 comes back and attacks the enterprise... everyone and their mother would expect kirk to defend the enterprise and presumably destroy kronos 1. enterprise carries on its merry way after and war breaks out.

    no one thought kirk would surrender. chang and valeris are flying by the seat of their pants once kirk beams over.

    simply have things play out the way they did but have chekov constantly bugging spock to go on a rescue mission (which would also lead to war, and the planned outcome). once kirk and mccoy are sentenced to prison, chekov could come clean and or be found out. and all he really would have done is forged the data banks. he doesnt even need to kill the guys that beamed over to kill gorkon.
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Chekov's motivation...? Why, the Klingons killed his brother! Plus, he's been consistently racist about that ridgeheaded scum. So along comes Admiral Cartwright and tells Chekov he's to be a kingpin in a great plan to kick the Klingons when they are down, and the only thing he needs to do is betray his captain and fellow officers - the same people who shook hands with the repulsive enemy just one movie ago. (Plus, he's still bitter about that Vixis thing.)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Oxford, PA
    And, you know, he's never quite been the same since Khan put that thing in his brain, and V'Ger zapped him with that plasma bolt, and he fell off that aircraft carrier and cracked his skull . . . :)
     
  4. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Perhaps, but they could have thrown in a few lines of dialouge that say referrenced the events of The Genesis Trilogy.
     
  5. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2003
    Location:
    Somewhere Out there beneath the pale moonlight.
    Well, I was going to post here that I never realized it was Valeris until the big reveal, but then I just remembered that I read the Mad magazine parody of TUC prior to seeing the movie. So I don't know if I would have been stumped or not, despite my young age when I first saw the movie (I was 11)
     
  6. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Location:
    Land of Enchantment
    The pretend Russian colluding with the pretend Russians? Brilliant!
     
  7. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Location:
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    Ok so why did they listen to him, then ?
     
  8. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    There is a diference between having authority and having to listen. They might have had to listen to him but they might have been free to simply ignore in part or in whole what he said.
     
  9. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

    Joined:
    May 28, 2001
    They didn't, that's the whole point.

    Meyer wanted Alley to return as Saavik. She was busy with Cheers and she would have cost too much anyway, as the film was on a very tight budget. He did not want Curtis. So, faced with having a third actress play Saavik or creating a new character, he went with a new character.
     
  10. SJK91

    SJK91 Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Location:
    The Final Frontier. How original, right?
    Alley for sure. Robin Curtis was awful. The scene in Star Trek III when she tells Kirk that David has been killed is flat out cringeworthy.
     
  11. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    That's because Alley's Saavik was emotional because she was supposed to be half Romulan. When this idea was dropped, Curtis played her Saavik with hardly any emotion as per a normal Vulcan.
     
  12. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    Which would make so sense, since Vulcan emotional control is a learned ability. Being half-Romulan would have zero impact if you were raised the Vulcan way.

    Hence The Pandora Principle giving Saavik a backstory where she was sole survivor of a failed colony, and wasn't rescued until she was almost ten. Her control is dodgy in STII because it's not something she was taught from birth.
     
  13. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    Chekov as a co-conspirator? No motivation except for the false Piotr memory. Janice Rand would have been a logical choice, getting back at Kirk for kicking her off the ship all those years ago. And because he tried to do the nasty with her without consent.
     
  14. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2013
    Location:
    The Captain's Table
    I always thought she engineered the transporter accident in TMP via sabotage to get back at him for his double's antics.

    --Sran
     
  15. SJK91

    SJK91 Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    Location:
    The Final Frontier. How original, right?
    Ah, I was not aware of this. Regardless, even if Curtis did play a Vulcan like she 'should have,' it certainly was not effective for the film.
     
  16. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    No they didn't. Chekov was an only child.

    Count me as one of the ones who prefer Curtis over Alley.
     
  17. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    not valid
    I could take either one of them. They both did a pretty good job. Of course I don't know why they had to out-continuity her in TVH, since she's been shown in the comic series' as being a great character. In DC's run she practically became part of the crew's family!

    In regards to her being the traitor, I don't like Valeris. She's too one note, and almost sassily unemotional, if that even makes sense. I even think certain scenes would be better with Saavik in place of Valeris, like the scene in Spock's quarters. Just saying, if she had been the traitor, with proper reasoning, it could've been one hell of a twist.
     
  18. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Location:
    Erie, PA, USA
    1. I prefer Robin Curtis over Kirstie Alley.

    2. Saavik would have made for a better conspirator plot-wise. That would have pulled the rug out from under long time Trek fans & the characters (Spock especially).
     
  19. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2008
    Location:
    Planet Carcazed
    Would people have liked Valeris more if she'd showed some cleavage? :lol:
     
  20. CaptainBearclaw

    CaptainBearclaw Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Location:
    not valid
    Um... we'll put that as a maybe.