If they had any bells...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by TheWelshPirate, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Re: If they had any balls...

    "If they had any balls... "

    ... then "they" would've allowed J.J. Abrams to completely reboot STAR TREK according to his vision. None of this "Alternate Timeline," Weasle Word stuff ... reboot it, remake it, reinvision it for a new Millenium. But ... "they" didn't. That's just the way the story goes ...
     
  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    Re: If they had any balls...

    ^Nimoy and time travel were Abrams' Plan A. It's detailed on the ST'09 extras.
     
  3. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Thank you, sir. Right, then. I still would've preferred seeing an actual reboot in 2009. Having STAR TREK completely done over was what I was looking forward to. Instead it was strangely familiar. Perhaps, it's not too late. There's still hope that the next television series may reboot the TOS characters in the same way Battlestar Galacta did with theirs. I wouldn't mind that at all, especially if they took it even further than that ...
     
  4. TheWelshPirate

    TheWelshPirate Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2014
    Location:
    Deep in the rain forests of Oregon
    Re: If they had any balls...

    I completely agree. I would've much rather they went with a hard reboot rather than this in-continuity, alternate universe mish-mash.
     
  5. Cinema Geekly

    Cinema Geekly Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2012
    Re: If they had any balls...

    I can't even imagine the fan backlash.

    You think the nerd rage is bad now about perceived rehashes of TWOK, and other such nonsense?

    Just imagine if Captain Kirk was a Woman, and Spock is in a relationship with a Hispanic Doctor McCoy.
     
  6. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Though we do get that one scene where everyone's staring in awe once they break the barrier, it's more like the crew was coerced into going there. They didn't boldly go under their own agency.

    Same as above, it wasn't really their idea. Besides, with V'Ger coming to Earth, it'd be like the Americas coming to Christopher Columbus.
     
  7. TheWelshPirate

    TheWelshPirate Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2014
    Location:
    Deep in the rain forests of Oregon
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Er, whaaaa? How does "reboot" equate with gender swaping? I don't remember Batman being turned in to a woman in Batman Begins. Talk about a straw man argument.
     
  8. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    "Who are you?"
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Yeah, after the original assertion was implicitly clarified, I can see the point.

    Nevertheless, strange new worlds still managed to get visited in both TOS and TNG films, so it's not like there's a lot of substance to the point.
     
  9. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Border patrol, actually. Officially to keep an eye on the Romulans and make sure they didn't take advantage of the Borg attack, but really to keep Picard out of the way because Starfleet didn't trust him.

    Not very often though. Assuming we just mean new to the characters (as new to the audience would mean every planet in every movie) than in TOS that leaves Genesis, which literally was a new planet and Sha Ka Ree, which of course the Enterprise was hijacked when it went there. In the TNG movies there's Veridian III, though the Enterprise went there specifically to stop Soran, not to explore. The Ba'ku homeworld, though that was the Admiral's team studying that planet, not the Enterprise. And even then, they had an ulterior motive and the Enterprise only got involved because Data discovered that and went wacko. Then there's the planet B-4's body parts were scattered around in Nemesis, but the reason for checking that out was to check out the positronic readings B-4 was emitting, and that was part of Shinzon's master plan to lure the Enterprise near the Neutral Zone so that they would be the only ship in range when he requested a Federation ship be sent to Romulus. In other words, not exploring.
     
  10. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Which is reason #587 of why Nemesis makes no sense: Why would Shinzon assume that Janeway would order the Enterprise to Romulus just because it was the closest ship? Wouldn't it have made more sense for Shinzon to have just asked for the Enterprise specifically?

    (Yeah, I know I'm off-topic here :p)
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    "Who are you?"
    Re: If they had any balls...

    How often were strange new worlds actually visited during the series, especially under the narrow parameters you're asking about? We can scratch off visits to colonies, starbases, times when they went back to planets to repair contamination from earlier starships, ship-board bottle episodes, times when they go to a planet to rescue crash survivors, times when they're kidnapped by aliens and put in puzzle-boxes. That eliminates most episodes of TOS right there.
     
  12. I am not Spock

    I am not Spock Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2001
    Location:
    Australia
    Re: If they had any balls...

    We didn't really see a lot of exploring in general, even on the Trek TV shows. Often the ship is on a mercy mission, or trading mission, or something of the kind. Ironically, Voyager features quite a bit of exploration. Even though they're supposed to be on their way home
     
  13. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Well, Starfleet does tend to send the closest ship in range, and there's usually only one ship per sector. Manipulate the Enterprise so that it's the only ship in range when he makes his invitation makes Shinzon look more like he has a master plan. You'd lose that if he just asked Janeway to send the Enterprise.

    Yes, exactly. Despite the party line that Star Trek is supposedly all about exploration, very little exploring gets done in the franchise. TOS and TNG despite having exploring in their opening monologues were largely about the ships fulfilling Starfleet assigned objectives of the week. DS9 was about life and drama aboard a space station, and Voyager was a quest to return home. Enterprise was the only series specifically about exploration, and even that got revised in the third season.
     
  14. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Re: If they had any balls...

    But if he specifically asked for the Enterprise, that would put the question in both Picard's and the audience's heads? Why? Which of course would be because he's Picard's clone. A nice bit of foreshadowing that was completely lost on the writer.

    And don't even get me started on Shinzon's "master plan"...
     
  15. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Actually, I doubt specifically asking for the Enterprise would really cause anyone to get suspicious or anything. After all, one would probably be more surprised if the new Romulan Praetor didn't request the Federation's flagship commanded by Starfleet's living legend.
     
  16. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Really? You don't think Starfleet would be even a tad suspicious that the new guy in charge of Romulus just after a volatile situation like a military coup wants the Federation's most advanced starship and one of its most important commanders? What if it was all a ruse and Shinzon just wanted to kidnap Picard and torture him for military secrets, and steal the Enterprise to plunder its technology? Wouldn't it make more sense to send an older ship with a less important commander?
     
  17. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2012
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Plunder its technology?

    The Scimitar gave the Ent-E the beating of its life, it would be a good wake up call for starfleet. :rommie:

    Atleast the JJ verse starfleet responded to superior threats and built the Vengeance.
     
  18. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Re: If they had any balls...

    Actually, that was kind of what I was going for, one would expect for a variety of reasons the new Praetor wanting the Enterprise. When Janeway or Picard first hear that request it wouldn't really set off too many alarms for them. "Oh yes, he wants our most high-profile ship and crew, either for hero worship to take out his largest thread from us" instead of "he wants the Enterprise? What the hell for? What makes us so special?"

    I guess the question then becomes why would Starfleet agree to send the Enterprise, though that can easily be explained as willing to humour the new foreign leader who is making diplomatic overtures and if things do go south, the Enterprise is a powerful enough ship, Picard an experienced enough captain with a competent enough crew to handle whatever comes up. Besides, last time Starfleet kept the Enterprise out of battle was against the Borg, and Picard showed up anyway and ended the battle within five minutes. If I were a Starfleet admiral, I would feel more comfortable knowing here were out there than a less important commander.
     
  19. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Re: If they had any balls...

    I wasn't speculating about what Shinzon had, I was just speculating as to why Starfleet would have sent the Enterprise-E.

    Where I was going with my point was not so much the Enterprise herself, but Shinzon wanting Picard, personally, by name. As you state, it would at least make Picard wonder why someone who is a complete stranger to him would want him personally, which we would then find out once Shinzon was revealed. Hell, Shinzon could have just asked for Picard to come to Romulus by himself, without the Enterprise. That would have made a hell of a lot more sense.

    The way the film portrayed it, Janeway simply randomly chooses the Enterprise, even though it is the "closest ship" thanks to them having to find B4. But Shinzon was putting an awful lot of faith that Starfleet would still send the Enterprise despite this, instead of simply asking for her specifically.
     
  20. AgentCoop

    AgentCoop Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Re: If they had any balls...

    Shinzon is simply genre-savvy. He watched the show and saw that the Enterprise is ALWAYS the only ship that's close to the plot-relevant action.