If Not Wonder Woman...Then Who?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Taylirious, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Oh, come on. The villain called her that. Loki was trying to diminish and degrade her -- and he failed. She maintained total control of the situation, and by playing on his sexist assumptions and getting him to underestimate her, she manipulated him into giving away his plan. She out-tricked a trickster god. And that's why it was thrilling for the crowd -- not because the villain tried to demean Black Widow, but because she totally kicked his ass. We were supposed to hate him for the "mewling quim" line (which isn't "Whedon-speak" but an archaic British idiom in keeping with the way Asgardians normally speak in the Marvel Universe) and cheer when Natasha made him eat those words.
     
  2. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^^Oh, come on! You actually believed that? That was silly when she was tied in a chair and it was silly then. There are zero thrills when the script hands out an unearned freebie.

    All that's left is the dialogue. A fitting archaism? The thrill of showing up Loki you pretend the scene is about would have been there if the line had been "pissy bitch" or "whiny cunt."
    The word itself is all the scene has to offer.
     
  3. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah. Because THAT'S what happened. That's why the audience I watched it with cheered. Because the Widow got one over on Loki.

    Facts iz facts.

    Yeah.... no. It's a fun scene. The look on Loki's face when he realizes he's been taken... hilarious.
     
  4. Technobuilder

    Technobuilder Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's true. Black Widow was good.

    In truth Hawkeye got the short end of the stick in Avengers, he was basically Mind Controlled the whole damn time.
     
  5. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was the same look on the Russian guy's face the first time they did the purported joke. Don't want to be quarrelsome, but it sure isn't a fact that the same joke is funnier the second time round. I don't think there was even any particular mirth the first time.

    Now it's nice for you if you could believe that, but really, since there's no difference between Loki's dumb expression and Russian whozis' dumb expression, the bang from the second scene comes from the pizzazz added by Loki's use of the word "quim."

    :wtf:

    There's a reason why I rated the movie as no better than a C. And there's a reason why I found it completely unwatchable on DVD. The movie's just not good enough without the real pizzazz of a movie screen. This reliance on shock value in this scene exposes Whedon's failure to write a good script.
     
  6. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Other than the the carnival attraction of crossing over characters from 4 different Marvel movies together, there is really not much going story-wise for Avengers.
     
  7. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Of course you want to be quarrelsome. If anything, that moment sets up the moment later with Loki. And she took on THE Trickster God... and won. It's funny. The audience I saw it with LAUGHED.

    See... right there... being condescending... THAT'S meant to be quarrelsome. Yeah. I believe that seen is funny. So do a LOT of other people.... So, why don't you dial it back a little?

    As I said, the Russian scene sets it up... and we think that Loki ACTUALLY gets under her skin.

    It's fine you didn't like it. But for a lot of other people, it did.

    Great! So?

    I don't think the script was a failure... out of the ballpark, no. I think the beginning, getting the team together is pretty slow. But once everyone is together, it's a lot of fun, the characters feel like they do in other movies, and there's some fun moments... "Puny God" comes to mind.
     
  8. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's a lot. At least it was watchable on the big screen. And while Whedon may have failed, he at least tried to do something with Romanov.

    "Its fine you didn't like it." Is it really fine? Wasn't the claim "fact iz facts," meaning that the scene is funny and thrilling? Perhaps condescension isn't as easy to read as to hear?
    Could I have misread? Could someone else have misread too?

    There may not really be any disagreement as to whether someone has a right to laugh.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Last night on GOON, that new sitcom with Chandler, they sat down in hotel room to watch Avengers on payperview, and not the porn version... Which isn't awful.

    For such a failure it's nice how that flick is still in the muggles minds.
     
  10. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Marvel has been building up Carol Danvers for a while now, so we'll see if she gets a movie or at least an important role in the SHIELD show or some upcoming Marvel TV show. From what I read of her Ms. Marvel series I liked it and could see some of that being adapted for the big or small screen. As for the new Captain Marvel series, it hasn't really grabbed me, though I did like the Carol-Monica Rambeau team up.

    I do agree that Marvel does have some great female characters, and wouldn't mind seeing more in solo projects in print or on the screen.
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    GOON? Isn't it called "Go On"?
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I watched the show, and assumed that there was typo in the credits.
     
  13. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    What about a retro-costumed Black Canary? Strapless corset, fishnet stockings, little jacket, and pirate boots?
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Briefly wasn't Lori Loughlin wedged into that outfit in Birds of Prey?
     
  15. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If they mangle it, they can pretty much put any non-male derivative heroine out there (e.g. Batgirl no, Widow yes).
    If you want a real superheroine (and no one really does, it seems, hence all the black leather), then Wonder Woman is a lock. But done right, a la the Carter series.
    I guess they could do something with Scarlet Witch. Not sure what. She's never stood on her own much. And she couldn't very well be Scarlet Witch in black leather.
    Otherwise, it's gotta be La Femme Natasha.
     
  16. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    They might as well put nipples on the batsuit too.
     
  17. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but I can't find a full length shot in costume, so no cheesecake tonight. :sigh:
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What about Death of the Endless?

    Cute little Goth thing, and alpowerful.

    I'm liking Erica Dasher or Ksenia Solo for the part.

    Still obviously a primer for the Sandman Movies.

    But that comes later.
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I just saw that episode recently, and I don't remember if she donned the full outfit. Generally the show wasn't much for superhero costumes, aside from the couple of times they put Dina Meyer in a repainted version of the Batgirl costume left over from Batman and Robin.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Strikeback" because they were too cheap(?) to use Nightwings was barely a cape.