If Kes had stayed

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by SignGuyHPW, Oct 11, 2013.

  1. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If it went by the "Before and After" timeline, she might have lived as long as the Ocampan that lived with Suspiria.
     
  2. soapp

    soapp Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    As much as Garrett Wang is a cool guy, I thought his character was one of my least favorites. And I hear they told them to play their characters bland... not sure that was a good idea. I also read they kept him because he made it in a Magazine for top 50 sexy men or something. So Instead they hacked Jennifer Lien which to me, even with her particular voice was way more interesting then Kim.

    Jeri Ryan was apparently dating one of the producers, sooo... that's an easy hire. (I'm guessing)

    All in all I wish they kept Kes over the 3 characters I just mentioned. KES > 7 > Kim
    I think they would have forgotten to age her. And I think her character would have been just like Tuvok, fun, interesting, not enough screen time and interesting story lines.

    ... I'm sorry, to me VOY was just disappointing on so many fronts, I just can't see anything good out of it, even with keeping her.
     
  3. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Ryan wasn't dating one of the producers until after she was hired, if I remember the events as described here a few months ago. She was married to a politician when she joined Voyager and divorced in 1999.
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'll take Kim over Kes any day.

    SHOOT ME
     
  5. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Targeting all of Voyager's "thirty-eight" photon torpedoes :lol:

    To each their own.
     
  6. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hmm......It seems that I have quite a reputation. ;)

    Anyway, my theory is that I think they were going to prolong Kes's lifespan. There were hints of that in episodes like "Cold Fire" and "Scorpion"

    I can't imagine any TV series where they bring in a young, beautiful actress just to use tons of heavy make-up to make her an old woman for a couple of episodes. That would have been a total waste.

    The idea of a nine year lifespan was actually silly. A species with such a short lifespan would never develope into something more advanced than primates.

    I guess that when they came up with that idea, it was sort of "oh, we've never had that in Star Trek before". Then, when they realized that it didn't work, they just drove on, like "ah, don't bother. They won't notice anything". In fact, the lifespan issue was seldom mentioned in seasons 2 or 3, only in certain episodes like "Cold Fire" and "Before And After".

    Personally I don't think that an aging or eventually dying character would have added anything to the show. I mean, this is Star Trek which is about exploring space, not some syrupy soap opera like "Days Of Our Lives" or "The Bold And The Beautiful".

    jazamul wrote:
    They did solve that problem by letting Kes have long hair. Which was apity indeed. I liked the short hairstyle better. It was a trademark for the character.

    teacock wrote:
    Why?
     
  7. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I thought the pixie cut was more flattering for Kes and Jennifer. Maybe the Doc could have given her an ear job, as was jokingly suggested to Leonard Nimoy when he wasn't sure he wanted to be some pointed eared freak after getting some jokes from the stage crew in the pilots.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Cut? Try wig.

    It's almost like they tried to make her less attractive because we couldn't handle it.

    Sure at the time, I liked it, it was fine, but after I saw her real hair, I felt lied to.

    Cheated.

    BETRAYED!
     
  9. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Again, it should be noted that they were never going to apply aging makeup on Kes had she stayed til season seven. Ocampa do not "age" in looks until they reach 9. However, "Fury" did make that mistake and made her appear 60, when "Before and After" had firmly established that's not the case.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Kes had her second birthday, in season 2s Twisted, which was originally supposed to be aired in season one.
     
  11. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's correct. The "writers" didn't even bother to follow their own "canon". It shows how much they cared.

    In fact, the whole "Fury" episode was a mistake.

    Guy Gardener wrote:
    That's also correct.

    Kes's birthday takes place between the events in "Elogium", Stardate 48921.3 (Friday 3 December 2371) and "The 37's", Stardate 48975 (Wednesday 22 December 2371). Since "Twisted has no official stardate, I took the liberty to give it Stardate 48961 which would establish Kes's 2nd birthday at 17 December 2371, an appropriate date for "The Day of Kes. :)
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You have to phrase it like that because you're just afraid of an episode with wall to wall faceraping if the crew is told that it is Kes day over the intercom.
     
  13. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe an Ocampa year is 3,650 days long.
     
  14. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well season 1 was shorter than the average season so... maybe they take like two days to grow up or something. Though it's more likely this was just another copout explanation.

    Kinda like Naomi being in the womb for at least a year and a half because she's an alien and they grow more slowly. Then being 10 a couple years later because she's an alien and they grow more quickly. ;)
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    On how Kim had the personality of a nine year old inside his mature exterior?
     
  16. ZeNd

    ZeNd Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    When it first happened I always thought it was an idiotic decision to get rid of kes for seven--at first, especially since we all know it was to try to pull in a demographic that wasn't going to watch voyager anyway.

    However, Seven ended up being a great character anyway, irrespective of her looks. So I'm kind of torn, I wish they could of made it work out by having them both stay but not at the expense of Seven's development.
     
  17. propita

    propita Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm wondering, not having followed Ryan's comments, has she ever discussed what SHE thought of Seven's having to repeat lessons?

    IMO, the character of Seven was good because of the writing of her and Ryan's performance. Though she seemed to repeat a number of lessons, she was allowed to progress and grow. An effort was made by the writing staff, or Paramount, to let an actress act. Ditto for Picardo, though towards the end of the show, I found his character more grating.

    Mulgrew was good at acting, but the writing of her character became so inconsistent--what could she do about that? Likely not much. Some other actors (O'Neil and Dawson) became more interested in directing, so they may not have minded their characters being lessened. Beltran, I won't get into here to much. I believe he was capable of more but little was written for him. Wang was less experienced as an actor, but did a decent job with what he was given.