Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Guy Gardener, Mar 4, 2009.
I really don't know what you are talking about. Really.
Picard seemed pretty sure that his children would have his name, and don't forget Lwaxanna Troi, and did I hear that her daughter is a Riker now?
Had a thought on the toilet.
If Chakotay is really big time into the ancient love traditions of being all native American and such... What about Polygamy? Googling tells me that it's not common but it did occur in areas, but i always took the term Squaw being it's own plural to suggest a harem.
Would that mean then that if he took his wifes name, then ipso facto he would take all his wives names, which I'm not precisely sure if that is the definition of a strutting cock or the dug and redug wound of eunuch?
You said you didn't know about Oz and new Zealand.
I am in New Zealand right now.
I then gave an example of a female friends marriage habits who is living in new Zealand too but was born and raised to the age of maybe twelve in Holland.
Then I remarked about the questrionalble traditional heritage these people t might abide by. Just because Seven didn't know where she came from other than being Borg, her gran might teach her all sorts of things, which be that as it may, she is probably into polyandry and communal living, but Chakotay managed to keep track of his genealogy back some 400 years that he knows that there was a female teacher alive in 1996 with his blood in her.
Can you imagine the balls on the Missionary that tries to convert the Borg withe the good word?
I was also being a punk.
Personally my mother didn't marry and I have her name. I didn't marry but my child has a hyphenated name created from my name plus his mothers, but I was annoyed because I thought it would be an interesting traddition if he took his mothers name like I took mine.
Right... because names are physical...
Actually, this may apply to my point: Chakotay's equivalent for a last name is tattoed on his forehead.
Now according to the claimed need to assess a family merge in marriage by way of sharing a name, Seven should get a tattoo. Except it's an ethnic thing. Therefore she doesn't need to. (Unless she was visiting the tribe in the jungle and they wanted to adopt her... and she wanted to be adopted. If they could work around the ocular implant. Hold on, I'm running out of ifs.)
Nor does Chakotay need to use a name from her old Borg or human identity. What might matter is what last name they use, and neither of them uses any.
Pointless debate anyway.
The only people for whom the name choice might be relevant are their hypothetical children.
Oh, and, by the way, I think Chakotay did the tattoo (officially to honor his father) so that he could dispense with most other Native American traditions. Religion set aside, he's a modern man, not a traditionalist, and certainly not a polygamist.
And I believe "squaw" is a derogatory, racist term. Better dispense with it. The use of it in a point about polygamy underlines how antiquated that idea is. In Native American societies, if polygamy was practiced, it was about survival. For all women to be provided for if there were less men, or proper providers, than women.
In a hypothetical generational ship with less men than women, one would rather consider polyandry...
"Metaphysically impossible?" or should I say it was physically impossible for either of them to sign the marriage certificate.
Polygamy might not be the way of the future, but the decriminalization of consensual Polygamy most certainly must be that it can hardly be still in the interest of the government to to stop three or four people from living together in the bonds of matrimony especially after civilization fell at least twice between the 1960s and the 2260s.
The XO got that Tattoo in the episode Tattoo when Him and his pappy went for a spirit walk and found a colony of hybrid sky-people living in the jungles of south America I assumed. It's been a while but I thought that the tattoo was the equivalent of getting a T-Shirt at a rock concert since the tribal people gave it to him. i think he might have given different reasons in another episode because Voyager has amusing crooked continuity.
Seven might want her darling to get a neural implant so that they could "cuberfuck" like she used to with Axum, who she might still boff in her dreams, and Chakotay has his own experience with borg implant group sex that he decided that it wasn't worth complaining about... Not being able to cyber each other might be for her like a regular woman would feel when marrying a bloke with no penis, which happens all the time. Although Chuckles does have that strap-on he used in Scorpion which follows the line of thought I was enjoying earlier.
Guy, I know you probably don't care--nor probably does anyone else--but the word "squaw" as used today is a pejorative against Native American women.
I assumed as much, but no ones using it in deference, or lack of deference to "todays" female citizens of the first nation. Merely looking at the roots and anthropological tradition of Chakotay, who I constantly refer to as "The Indian" only because Rob Beltran is Mexican (I saw a south park the other day where Cheech and Chong were trying to pass themselves off as native Americans to sell crap through a holistic medicine outlet.) and I think it's funny they couldn't find an actual native Americans to play a Native American in the middle of Occupied America. It's almost as unmindful as blackface comedians if you wish to get really astute about it.
That spirit walking tech of his to find animal guides, is basically a hive mind link up, so he shouldn't have any worries from the Borgette about his lack a replete sexual diversity. hells B'Elanna used it to commit suicide against a fraction of her psyche. I wonder how that impacted on Chuckles' well being that there wasn't some sort of thanotic transition between the two of them?
I'm an American Indian woman and the word is offensive. You wouldn't use the n-word. Why use this?
Your lack of information is showing.
Indigenous Americans are those who trace their ancestry to the indigenous inhabitants of the Americas, both north and south. That, yes, includes Central America.
Ever heard of the Maya? The Aztecs? The Inca?
They did a lot wrong with Chakotay's background, but casting a mestizo Chicano wasn't one of them.
How is attacking me, creating a situation where I want to say nice words to you?
I know plenty of nice words.
I could say the best things in the world about you, but maybe now I don't want to because you've hurt my feelings.
I am saddened.
You used the word "squaw." I'm a native woman reading it. Would you describe Sisko with the n-word and think you could get away with it?
And I really see no place where I "attacked" you. I disagreed with your statements, which were first, insulting, and then factually incorrect.
I feel victimized.
Am I supposed to react defensive or cravenly apologetic?
You clearly don't care about context while throwing around a word like nigger hidden underneath some PC PVC raincoat hoping to parasitically latch onto the coattails of another oppressed minority because it will make your case. Using the suffering and plight of African Americans to advance your argument is superbly tolerant how?
Obviously you have no idea what Native American history was.
Throw around all the racist terms about us you like.
Obviously the moderators have no problem with it.
As for your depiction of the indigenous people of Central and South American as "not Native Americans"... you're still wrong.
Okay - that's enough. I'm closing this thread pending a warning decision.
Okay, I've consulted with my fellow mods in the BR and we're going to give this another try. If anyone is still interested in the original topic of (checks subject line) last name issues if Chakotay were to get married then have at it.
Guy Gardener: You may or may not have been aware that "squaw" was derogatory when you used it. I know it's next to impossible to avoid offending someone on the Internet but when it happens a simple "I'm sorry I did not mean to offend you." can go a long way in avoiding drama. If the person you offended won't accept the apology then it becomes THEIR problem, not yours. Your overreaction only made things worse. Next time you offend someone (hey, there's always a next time for all of us) aplogize then BACK OFF.
teya: I can sympathize with being annoyed at all the racial and gender garbage that goes on around here. Unfortunately, we can't moderate the attitudes of those who post here. All we can do is strike a balance between the right to free speech and the desire to make the forum a place that's comfortable for anyone to post in. It's a compromise that means walking a fine line and how to best walk that line is an ongoing discussion in the BR.
In the meantime, if anything bothers you the thing to do is either pm the poster in question or hit the "Notify" link with your complaint. This generates an automated message to the forum mods that all the other mods and admins can also see in the BR. Getting into it with another poster ruins the thread for all the other posters.
If either of you have any questions or comments then please feel free to pm me.
Okay, everyone can get back into the pool now.
Hang on, I THOUGHT Chakotay WAS his last name...
Goddamn if Chakotay isn't a gay ass dude, he bloody better should be...
What a worthless trek character. Chak = Janeway's Bitch...
if I wrote a script like Yar in Next Generation. I would provide a really good death scene... And whack his ass...
any ideas? Here is your chance to write a GOOD death scene for Chak..
There isn't any such thing as a cool death scene for anyone. There are many many Chakotay fans just like there are many, many Janeway fans. No Trek character is worthless.
They took the magnificent Ben Vereen and made him just Geordie's Pa.
They took the magnificent Teri Hatcher and made her into some floozie for the OUTRAGEOUS Okanna to rut.
They took the magnificent Christina Loken and they made her Kims fake incestuous horny sister.
It's debatable if there are worthless characters but there have certainly been acters stuffed into tiny characters possibly beneath them if they didn't need the job to make rent.
Okay, we get it that you don't like Chakotay. No need to be trollish about it. Besides, the thread is about his last name, not about how he should die.
I had a completely new thought on the matter.
Remember that time when Harry as being a dick in the Omega Directive proving that he wasn't a team player who couldn't follow orders (Well unless it was a Hirogen dipping a rifle barrel his throat telling his how to be a treasonous race traitor.) and Seven decided that he was too poor at his assigned task that he was redesignated with a different name to symbolize demoted repositioning in the work detail?
Anika probably had plenty of different Jobs in the Collective over the years and numerous different designations which were specific to each job. Her name kept changing and it was like winning a game of roulette that her name was "Seven of Nine" when she met the Voyager Crew.
If Seven marries Chuckles, they became a new subcollective of just two, and she might be concerned by the nature of "exactness" to change her name to a title fitting her position a part of the two.
So which one of them is one of Two and which one of them is Two of Two?
I believe the fairest way to sort it out might be that whichever one of them cowboys up and actually does the proposing is One of Two more so than... And their numbers would change again still as their subcollective grows as they have children. Though how would the children feel about their names being fluidic and changing every time Mommy gets knocked up? Talk about a new reason to resent the incumbent younger siblings.
Separate names with a comma.