if Chakotay doesn't have a last name, when he gets married...

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Guy Gardener, Mar 4, 2009.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    He marries Seven apparently in the lost Endgame Timeline.

    Does she take his voidy absence of a last name and now becomes just Seven or Just Anika? Or since nature abhors a vacuum, does he take her family name or names, making his new John Hancock: Chakotay Hansen or Chakotay Tertiary Adjutant to Unimatrix 001?
     
  2. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    Italy, EU
    Why should a woman take the last name of his husband? I know it's a surprise to some, but among all western nations, it's only in the US that it's still customary.
     
  3. Hoshi_Mayweather

    Hoshi_Mayweather Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2004
    Location:
    In Busyland...
    This was something the boyfriend and I discussed awhile back...(and I can go with the guy taking the name of the woman for a change, but I guess that is up to the couple).

    As for Chakotay taking Seven's 'human' last name...Hmm, I don't think that'll please the C/J'ers...no matter the timeline. :lol:
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I am not a yank, not that there's anything wrong with that. Hells Bells, its debatable if I even live in the west. :)

    I've heard of this "compositing" that couples do when entering marriage that they both take on a hybrid name to acknowledge that neither of them is too superior in an obvious way.... But any way you try to conglomerate Hansen and " " you're going to end up still with Hansen... And, in the case of hyphenating, how do you pronounce Hansen-" " ? Or " "-Hansen?

    I wonder if Miral and B'Elanna now have to do some scary things before "The House of Paris" would be recognized by the Klingon High Council?
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2009
  5. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    Of course why does any name have to be taken, Chakotay had one name. His wife depending on who would have one name or two or three. His children would have as many names as they cared to give them. Maybe the wife has a surname and the children take his custom and don't have surnames either.

    I am also reasonably sure in the future people will have some official designation like a social security number so they really won't need last names.

    Brit
     
  6. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    Italy, EU
    No, actually I was talking about each partner keeping their own last name (or lack thereof). So Chakotay will be Chakotay and Seven (Hannika Hansen) will be Seven (Hannika Hansen). There is no need for a common, or composite, last name to know that they are a married couple.

    The naming of the klingon houses is somehow confusing. Lursa and B'Etor were from the House of Duras (their brother), but Worf is from the House of Mogh (his dead father). So I really don't know how they will call it. Maybe the name of B'Elanna grandfather, since he would be the fist male klingon in their family line.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    There was this bloke called Duras on Enterprise. The name is old, so is the family and the need to lord over it using a symbol of authority, even if that is just a heriditically passed "name".

    I think the leader of the house assumes the name (Romans were big on this as well as adopting adults to create lineage.) of the house, or mothers expecting their children to assume leadership, however unlikely give their kids the name of the leader of the house as the tiniest nudge towards being ambitious, but then it would be kind of pathetic have 1/2 the house having the same "name"? You'd think that the name would be forbidden for any one to use but the ruler of the house?

    Popes and Kings take on new names when they get to power.

    Remember in King Ralph?

    "Maybe you should considering a new name?"

    "Why? ralph is a perfectly fine name."
     
  8. spoonunseptium

    spoonunseptium Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Location:
    in the future
    There's no need for either of them to take each other's names.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Of course there's no need, and it's physically impossible for her to anyway.

    I got Fiddler on the roof hammering through my memories right now.

    "Tradition! tradition!"
     
  10. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Location:
    Thee Olde Spook Shack
    Uh, there are MANY countries where this is customary.

    Personally I don't care either way, but you're just flat out wrong here.
     
  11. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    It will be 'Janeway' of course.

    Oops, wrong thread. :p
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Right thread, i just changed the names of some people to protect the dead sexy.
     
  13. Miss Chicken

    Miss Chicken Little three legged cat with attitude Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    Howrah, Hobart, Tasmania
    Icelanders manage OK without surnames. They use patronymic (or sometimes matronymic) instead.

    If Chakotay used this method and called his son Clyde, his son would be known as Clyde Chakotayson. If his daighter was Kathryn, she would be known as Kathryn Chakotaydaughter. Or the children might use their mother's first name as a matronymic.

    Women are known all their lives by the name their were given at birth and never take the husbands' names.

    Of course, in all likelihood, Chakotay would give his some an Indian name.

    Neelix and Tuvok don't have last names.
     
  14. Tachyon

    Tachyon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Location:
    Finland
    Or perhaps Chakotay's "full name" is Chakotay Son Of Kolpak. In this case his son's name would be, for instance, Clyde Son Of Chakotay.

    Seven was not too fond of her given name, so perhaps her name remained as Seven Of Nine when she would have married Chakotay.
     
  15. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Location:
    Italy, EU
    In the world, you are right. But in the western hemisphere, only Anglophone nations still do that, and in the UK it's a declining trend (if I remember correctly). Honestly, I don't know about Australia and New Zealand.


    As I said, it is confusing. Maybe Duras is the name of the founder of the House one thousand years ago, and the ones we saw are just people that bear his name. Same with Mogh. On the other hand, when Quark assumed the head of Grilka's House in DS9, it assumed the name of House of Quark, so we have evidence that the name of the House is that of the ruling male. Or maybe, it could just be that different Houses have different rules, as surname rules are different in human cultures.

    Yeah, but tradition of who? Neither Seven nor Chakotay apparently belong to culture where it's customary for the wife to assume the surname of the husband, or vice versa. You are applying a tradition to people that do not share it.

    Vulcan family names are also confusing. Apparently the use the patronymic (Spock, son of Sarek), and in very formal occasion the double patronymic (Sarek, child of Skon, child of Solkar). Many novels assume that they have clan or family names. It could be the "almost unpronunciable for a human" name that Spock never told to Leila Kalomi, or the one that Spock's mother had difficulties to learn in Journey to Babel.

    About Talaxian names, I do not want to know. :p
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I was told that that was irrelevant since due to some odd incidents of breeding patterns they tried to make the phone book a couple decades back and discoverd that of the millions of people listed, that predominantly the bulk of them only had four different (apocryphal story, let it go.) surnames so the powers that be, just said "fuck it" to save money on ink.

    I mean historically surnames are only there to stop inbreeding, pronounce a profession or help the tax collector keep track of who is running away from his open purse.God knows where the pride comes from.
    Tuvok is married. But then Vulcans get engaged shortly after birth. There might some appendage, affectation to the name then abouts, so that never "child" forgets what their family expects of them?

    HILARIOUS! :guffaw::bolian:
    I usually roll my eyes 10 generations atfer the fact (Although I've only ever seen this said in fiction on TV and Movies, although I 'm just young enough to have no recollection of seeing Roots, but Chappel did a hilarious pistake on the Kunta Kinta whipping scene.) that the Dutch snared their ancestors up in a net and ferried them off to America, that some one says "That is my slave name!" However in sevens case, that's pretty damn acurate.

    I'm looking about out my window and I can smell the after woft of plenty of pretentious wankers who need to prove that they are not cattle, but over all marriage is just a lark and name changing is just part of the game, though I have a Dutch friend who was just overjoyed to take on an English sounding name so that the natives here would stop butchering her own mother tongue. However half a world away and 5 years later, she remarried an immigrant Ducth fellow and shes back to square one with a new unpronounceable name all the stupid Kiwi's can't quite get their tongue around.
    I defy you to prove to me that Seven of nine or Chuckles are not early 20th century Hasidic Jews?
    Neelix is probably on the run for charges of pedophilia, gotta keep his ears low, although since they call him Neelix and Mr. Neelix depending on the occasion, maybe his name is Neelix Neelix? The Hedgehog so hedgehoggy they named him twice?
     
  17. Miss Chicken

    Miss Chicken Little three legged cat with attitude Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    Howrah, Hobart, Tasmania
    I think it is Denmark who have a large percentage of people sharing only a few surnames. I know one such name is Hansen - which is shared by about 4.3% of teh Danish population.

    However the patronymic seems to work well in Iceland, aprtky because of Iceland's small population (about 300,000 people).

    The Iceland phone book lists people under their first name, than theire middle name and lastly their patronymic. The phonebook also lists people's occupation to make it easier to determine if you have the right person.
     
  18. Daneel

    Daneel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto
    This reminds me of the exchange between Tom and B'elanna right after their wedding. It went something like:
    TOM: So, B'Elanna Paris... Has a nice ring to it.
    B'ELANNA: Actually, I kind of like the sound of Tom Torres.
    TOM: You're joking.
    B'ELANNA: Why not? It is the 24th century, you know.

    So it seems couples are still having debates about this hundreds of years from now. :lol:

    To the poster who said that the U.S. is the only Western country where women taking their husbands' names is still common, it still happens often here in Canada too. Personally, I think it's an archaic custom, but as I'm unlikely to ever get married, it's one I won't have to deal with anyway. ;)

    As for the original topic... eh, I don't see Seven changing her name if she marries Chakotay. And who knows what is typically done in Chakotay's tribe? I think they'd both just keep their names (or designations) as they are.
     
  19. USS Kongo

    USS Kongo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Didn't even realize, until now, that Chakotay only had one name!

    The things you learn everyday....

    Sean
     
  20. mythme

    mythme Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2001
    Location:
    Jim Thorpe, PA, USA
    Seems in the future that a woman taking her husband's last name is purely optional. It's highly unlikely that Samantha's husband's name is Greskrendtregk Wildman. So apparently Sam kept her own surname and also passed it on to Naomi.

    Also in TNG, Beverly's maiden name was Howard, but this was also the last name of her Grandmother. In "Sub Rosa", Ronin romanced all the "Howard women", going WAY back. So it seems that Bav broke tradition by changing her last name to Crusher, when otherise Howard seems to have been passed matrilinearly.
     

Share This Page