IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by serenitytrek1, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Even so. We got six TOS movies with the same core seven cast members, even when it would've been more logical for them to move on to different ships or careers. We even got one of them back from the dead. The original idea with TWOK was to introduce a new, younger cast (starting with Saavik and David) who'd gradually take over from the TOS cast, but instead the new characters got written out and we kept getting the same seven over and over. It wasn't until the last movie in the series that anyone moved on. Same with TNG -- every movie maintained the same status quo, with Worf always coming back; and the one major change they attempted, Data's emotion chip, was progressively deconstructed with each film. Again, it wasn't until the last film that any permanent change was allowed.

    Trek movie audiences want and demand a stable status quo. They want the same familiar characters in every movie, and that pressure for familiarity has been a stranglehold on Trek movies for three decades. No real, lasting change in the core cast has ever been allowed while any Trek movie series has been ongoing. I see no reason to believe that's going to change now.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    While I don't expect a major change at the end of this film with the cast (though I'm interested on why Chekov is seen in a red uniform), I do think we'll see Paramount taking greater risks in the future or else they risk alienating the general audiences they've lured back to Trek with the reboot.

    Whether something major happens with the cast, the Enterprise or with the greater environment, Pine said he wasn't sure how they would do a third based on the events of Into Darkness. So that gives me hope that they're not going to just keep tossing us status quo films.
     
  3. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    While I agree, we also have to take into account that the TOS cast were very loyal to the franchise and even then, Majel Barrett largely bowed out due to behind the scenes issues, Grace Lee Whitney was considered superfluous, and Nimoy flip-flopped a couple of times. We can't assume that the NuTrek cast will have the same longevity after the 3 movie deal is done, particularly when Pine and Saldana's stars are on the rise. It's harder to tell with the other cast members - Urban and Pegg are genuine fans and would probably be keen to appear if at all possible, the others less so.

    Still, I suppose that now they've bitten the bullet once, they could always re-cast characters as and when required if they want to carry on beyond the third movie. Or it may be that the movies make enough money that they can offer salaries to keep all the actors interested.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Which doesn't mean anyone's going to be written out in the second movie.


    Just what I was about to suggest. These are already the second set of actors to play these characters, so more recasting is always a possibility. And other film franchises have managed to get away with recasting characters -- James Bond being the classic example.
     
  5. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    The death of Spock only affected a few issues of DC Comics' first post-ST II series. And post-ST III he was back! There were plenty of flashback issues to the TOS era in both of DC's runs.

    Flashback stories are always possible, no matter what the trilogy of movies does to the main cast.
     
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Actually that's not true, since post-STIII, Paramount required DC to shunt Spock off to the sidelines, since they weren't sure yet what his status would be in the fourth film. So of the 27 issues that are set between III & IV, Spock is only a significant player in the initial 8-issue arc and then in 6 subsequent issues. It wasn't until after ST IV that Spock was a regular again. So the death of Spock technically affected at least 3/5 of the series's regular issues.


    Not quite. Volume 1 had only three stories set in the 5-year mission (one of which had a movie-era frame), plus one issue that brought the 5YM-era cast forward in time to the movie era. Vol. 2 had only one 5YM-era issue in the first 70 percent of its run, but more than half of its remaining issues -- including the whole final 10% of the run -- were mostly or entirely in the 5YM and pilot eras.
     
  7. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Location:
    Andrew Timson
    I'm assuming they're trying to do just a little more lead in to his eventual position as security chief, unlike what we got in the Prime Timeline...

    If that is the case, does that really count as a "major change", since we've seen it before?
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    An 18-year old genius would seem ill-equipped to be security chief. I'm thinking it has something to do with a transfer to engineering. Whether it sticks or not is another story.
     
  9. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    Chekov Prime was ill-equipped to be security chief too (he was naive and more interested in scientific trivia than security protocols and he was always geting beaten up) but he did make a competent bridge tactical officer. No way should he ever be groomed to be security chief but aligning him to the security division to make more of his fast reactions and mathematical skills to improve weapon and shield use is a perfect fit. I never understood why you would want your chief of security sitting on the bridge opening hailing frequencies instead of being in charge of his department. Bridge tactical and small unit security do not have to be administered by the same person.

    I'm still in favour of them introducing a new (alien?) female character as a security chief to try and even up the numbers but in a 2-hour movie I
     
  10. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    It is true. He was back. Not quite the way we were used to, but for the point of my response, it was enough. I thought.

    But the existence of the movie era comics did not prevent the possibility of flashback issues. Those flashback issues reassured us that 5YM stories were not dead just because the characters were now appearing in movies set many years later. And later, during the Marvel/Paramount, WildStorm and IDW issues, five-year mission stories were common, so for the point of my answer, it seemed sufficient.

    Expand on my answers all you like. I ran out of time to elaborate. But I wasn't wrong. Just too brief for your liking. ;)
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Chekov Prime is also a completely different character from the Abramsverse version and was also 25-30 years old when made security chief in the Prime timeline. Uhura would make a far more convincing security chief in the new universe.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I think you're overlooking that there's a gap of several years between when we last saw him as navigator and when we first saw him as security chief. He could've spent the years that the ship was being refit undergoing extensive security training. (There's a novel, Traitor Winds, that shows exactly that, exploring how and why Chekov made the transition to security.)


    No, I was responding to your first sentence, where you claimed that "the death of Spock only affected a few issues." He may have been back after STIII, but the original status quo was not restored at that time; the consequences of his death still affected the storylines of most of Volume 1's issues, not just the first few.
     
  13. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    I love Traitor Winds - it was the first novel I read where the focus was not on the Big 3. However, I was referring more to how Chekov was portrayed in the movies after TMP. He was assigned to the science department in TWoK and there was never any real evidence that he was a competent security officer in TWoK, TVH, TFF, and especially not in TUC. Look at scenes like the confrontation with Khan, the interrogation on the nuclear wessel, and the murder investigation. As a security officer, he looks shambolic.

    Now NuChekov can be painted differently and if moving him off navigation opens up a slot for a new minor female character (I'd love to see them make use of Ilia, even if they just use a bald bit part actress). However, making the boy genius a combat expert feels like an odd fit.

    I also have to 'fess up and say that I've been a proponent of updating Janice Rand as a security-trained yeoman in order to provide a simple role for an action heroine, so updating characters is not something I'm against. To a certain extent though, the horse has already bolted for Chekov.
     
  14. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    One advantage of Uhura being a blank slate is that it will be easier for them to build an interesting background for her. The review of the next issue on Trekmovie.com looks interesting.
     
  15. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Can someone please post a full summary of ongoing 18.I have not read it yet.
     
  16. Sto-Vo-Kory

    Sto-Vo-Kory Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Location:
    Battle Creek
    Okay, here goes:

    The story begins with nuSpock teaching a class at Starfleet Academy. Uhura introduces herself to him after class and asks him out, since the class has concluded for the term and he is no longer officially her teacher. Several months pass and it's implied that they're now well into their relationship.
    Spock suggests that they participate in a Vulcan ritual called "emafa kito" which Uhura mistakenly infers to be a commitment ceremony. Spock corrects her and we see that he means to mind meld with her. She consents and, through the meld, we witness Uhura as a young girl on a space trip with her parents and her adventurous uncle, Raheem.
    The ship that they're traveling in (a 24th century shuttlecraft, due to poor photo-referencing by the artist) has suffered damage and the uncle dons a space suit and goes outside of the craft to repair the damage. While fixing the exterior of the ship, the control console explodes (no reason is ever given) and knocks mom and dad out cold, leaving little Nyota the only conscious person still inside the craft.
    Uncle Raheem is still alive and talks Uhura via comm systems through the task of bypassing the door mechanism to the escape pod and moving her parents into the pod once it has opened. As soon as the pod detaches, the main ship explodes and we see uncle Raheem hurtling into the upper atmosphere of the planet that they were orbiting.
    Uhura cries out for him but he tells that the initial explosion had already sent him to his doom and that there was no way to save him. He consoles her by telling her how proud he is of her and how glad he is that his final conversation would be with her.
    The meld ends and we're back in the dorm room with Spock and Uhura. She tells him that she never spoke about her experience with anyone but her parents until him. The story closes with a full page spread of them kissing in an embrace.
     
  17. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    ok so I've now read both 18 and Countdown to Darkness issue 2. I rather liked the Uhura origin story. It was a little bit lightweight but its heart was in the right place. It didn't overdo the relationship stuff.

    I'm torn as to whether I would have preferred an uncle or an aunt featuring as an influence. We've already seen that Kirk's dead father seems to have more of an impact on his character than his mother, we've seen McCoy's father, and we've seen that while Spock's dual nature can be personified by his parents, it's ok to kill his mother because his human girlfriend can now step into that role. I suppose the difference between Spock and Kirk is that Spock's surviving parent is an ongoing influence while Kirk's mother is a footnote. So on the one hand it would have been nice to see the influence of a female relative on one of the characters but on the other would that polarise the sexes - the boys are influenced by other males and the girls by other females. I think they still need to change their game when it comes to gender roles.

    I'm really liking the prequel comic. There are more than enough plot threads to make this very interesting. Four issue stories allow for so much more plot and character development that I'm still lamenting that we get only one or two issue stories in ongoing. Maybe if they do one four issue brand new story per year that would satisfy my desire for some more meat on the bones. I really think that the Vulcan storyline would have benefited tremendously from being twice as long. The opener was fantastic and there were a wealth of possibilities to explore. It was just over too quickly and neatly.

    Nichelle Nichols would have been great in the centre chair and it's nice to see the Saldana version effortlessly filling that role with the same strength of personality. Now all they need to do is REPEAT THIS ON SCREEN - SHE DESERVES IT!!!!!

    Once again, apart from Uhura and a navigator in flashback, women are thin on the ground. April's command team was all male and it's getting tiresome. Social insect hierarchies on Earth are dominated by females, including warriors, with males' primary purpose to mate with queens. It will be interesting to see if these alien bugs follow that hierarchy of they impose a male dominated hierarchy instead.

    Overall, this was a good month for NuTrek comics.
     
  18. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    I just read the comic yesterday. it was very sweet, fluffy, predictable and romatic.

    NU-Spock is more human than TOS Spock will ever be.

    It is also quite obvious that Uhura is not his first girl he has been with as Spock seems to know a lot about the intimate (sex) aspects of relationships.


    You would think that Vulcans would be very private and even a little ignorant about those kind of things.

    However I agree, the comic was too short and the ending was too neat.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  19. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012


    As for women not been presented well in star trek. I would give JJ Abrams the benefit of the doubt for into darkness.

    We have both Zoe Saldana and Alice Eve as the lead females. They are meant to be Spock and Kirk’s love interest but I also think that they will be more than that.

    JJ Abrams does say that Uhura is a very strong and independent woman and Carol Marcus's intelligence will be a key factor in the villain’s defeat.

    They are not just pretty faces..However Uhura does seem to be crying in the trailer.We all knowing crying represents one of the characteristics of stereotypical weak females.


    I am not expecting Trek girls to be like Bond girls but I don't think Trek girls are Bella Swans or old school Disney Princess.


    Some male trek fans are upset about how the core trinity of Trek, which is Spock-Bones-Mccoy has ben replaced with Spock-Uhura-Kirk.

    So.......there is no need to be worried about the dominant male establishment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Personally I've always felt it's the other way around, that the weak ones are the men who try to avoid the natural, healthy expression of sorrow or pain out of the fallacious belief that it's unmanly. Emotions are part of us, and denying a part of yourself makes you weak. Not to mention that being afraid of one's own emotions is hardly a courageous thing.