IDW Star Trek Ongoing...

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by serenitytrek1, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Well, one could level the same criticism at the earlier Trek movies. They kept the same familiar crews together forever regardless of credibility. Every attempt at a meaningful change was reset to the familiar status quo within two movies. Kirk was more of a hothead and renegade in the movies than he ever was in the series. The TNG movies focused overwhelmingly on the three biggest characters, Picard, Data, and Worf. Most of the Trek movies have been superficial compared to the shows and have played up their most familiar and popular elements at the expense of nuance. It's just the nature of the medium: feature films are aimed at a more general audience, and thus they naturally focus more on what's familiar and expected for the general audience. This was the case long before Paramount started collaborating with Bad Robot.
     
  2. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    I didn't have an issue with the TOS crew sticking together in the movies until TFF where the senior staff of the Enterprise consists of three captains and four commanders. At least TUC shook things up a bit by promoting Sulu and giving him his own command.

    But, yeah, the TNG movies were rather silly, particularly with Nemesis where Worf and Wesley Crusher are back and Starfleet officers with no real explanation given. And aside from Riker no one has moved up in rank at all despite the fact Starfleet's recently been through a war in which it suffered heavy losses.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    In any case, it was primarily the movies (especially TSFS) that created the stereotype of Kirk as an orders-defying renegade, and the movie audience and the broader public mainly know Trek from the movies, so the more recent movies are following the precedent set by the earlier ones. As for Spock, he was also more emotional in the movies, starting with his "This simple feeling" epiphany in TMP. When he was brought back to life, TVH had him quickly recapitulate the same journey to accepting that emotions matter, accomplishing in mere days what had taken him decades the first time around; and that continued through to TUC, where he taught Valeris that logic was merely the beginning of wisdom. The Abrams movies, again, are following the precedent of the earlier movies, quickly getting Spock to a position where his emotions were closer to the surface than they were on TV. So this is not about Abrams and his collaborators' personal tastes or talent; this is about movies following the precedent of movies, because their audience does not completely overlap with the television fanbase and thus has different expectations and preferences. I think it likely that if someone other than Abrams had been given the job of rebooting TOS, they would still have given us a more hotheaded Kirk and a more emotional Spock, because those are the established feature-film versions of the characters and what the general public wants and expects. At least Abrams and his team have come up with legitimate explanations for why the characters are different -- Kirk had a rougher upbringing and Spock lost his mother and his planet.
     
  4. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Location:
    Star Trekkin Across the universe.
    Considering that in the game if you scan so Gorn tech you get a back story for them where you learn that these Gorn are likely the product of uncounted generations of genetic engineering.

    So yeah these Gorn being a vicious war-like race actually is sensible considering that pretty much what augmented humans were like in comparison to unaltered humans.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    ^Maybe some extragalactic race abducted some Gorn, took them home, and engineered them into a more warlike form? Sort of like what the Aegis did with Gary Seven's ancestors, only with more malevolent intent?
     
  6. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Location:
    Sol III, Sector 001, 2016 C.E.
    An ENT episode had an Orion guy mentioning that the Gorn were the best brewers of a certain drink in local space. In the 22nd century. And the mirror ENT episodes had a Gorn who had been hired by the Tholians. Also in the 22nd century. The game portrays them as an extragalactic race of conquerors who just arrived in Federation territory because of "rips" in space created by an experimental Vulcan technology. But even if you accept that this "extragalactic offshoot" of Gorn existed in the prime reality all along, I think that the Abramsverse guys deny that the Milky Way Gorn Hegemony exists. :klingon:
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I haven't played the game or read the comic issue, but I have the opposite impression: That the reason they made these "Gorn" extragalactic and genetically engineered was to avoid direct conflict with what we know about the Gorn of our galaxy.

    Also, of course, whatever claims may have been made, I doubt very much that the video game is any more canonical than the comics. Its ideas probably come more from the game developers than from Abrams and his "Supreme Court."

    In fact, there was a Gorn extra in one of the deleted Rura Penthe scenes in the 2009 movie. Of course, deleted scenes are no more canonical than tie-ins, but this suggests to me that the "Supreme Court" did intend the Gorn of our galaxy to exist in this timeline, albeit with a modified appearance.
     
  8. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Location:
    Sol III, Sector 001, 2016 C.E.
    For my part, I deride whoever came up with the Gorn extra you mentioned, whoever came up with the extragalactic Gorn, and whoever created the Blingons. :brickwall:
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Deriding that which is new and different is missing the entire philosophical point of Star Trek. It's also overlooking the fact that ST has constantly reinvented itself over the decades, including redesigning the Klingons many times.
     
  10. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    At least every Klingon that came after TMP could easily be identified as a Klingon. The Klingon in STID could have been any other race, he does't even remotely look Klingon!
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    With the exception of the videogame Gorn, that would be Neville Page. You might recognize him as one of the judges on Face Off.
    Not sure if serious.:vulcan:
     
  12. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2014
    Location:
    Sol III, Sector 001, 2016 C.E.
    I am well aware of the evolution of Klingon makeup/costumes. That being said, I have an extremely difficult time accepting Blingons. :klingon:
     
  13. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    I don't see where the new Klingon makeup in STID is that much of a change from what we had. It's a much more subtle change than the TOS-TMP-TSFS transition.
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Absolutely. Quoting a post I wrote a while back comparing the various types of Klingon over the years:

    Really, the only reason some people are objecting to the new design is because it's new -- because they haven't had time to get used to it as they have with all the other, widely varying Klingon designs we've had over the years.
     
  15. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    At least the klingons look more like klingons than the caitians look like caitians
     
  16. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Sorry, but I have to disagree. If I had seen the STID Klingon out of context, I never would have guessed that he's supposed to be a Klingon. I wish they had kept the helmets on, which I thought were a brilliant compromise.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
  17. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Abrams himself disavowed the game and claimed it hurt STID's box office performance (story). I'd say that tells us all we need to know about the game's canonical value.
     
  18. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Yeah, they were obviously Klingons. Like I said, the differences are no greater than those between, say, Lt. Worf's makeup (Michael Westmore design) and Col. Worf's makeup (Richard Snell design) -- and considerably less than the difference between either of those and the TMP Klingons. This is your standard post-1984 Klingon design -- dark complexion, wide bony head plate with a knobbly central ridge and less pronounced ridges along the temples, and a prominent nose.

    http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/klingon_uhura.jpg

    Of course there's a difference in execution, but that's because different artists are designing them, and they have every right to bring their own interpretations to the art. It's like in comic books -- the way John Romita, Jr. draws Peter Parker is very different from the way John Romita, Sr. drew him, but they're both meant to be the same face. Ditto for John Byrne's Superman vs. Frank Quitely's. Sometimes fans forget that Star Trek is a creative work, not a documentary, and that creators are allowed to put their own individual stamps on a shared creation. There's no objectively "right" way to design a Klingon, because Klingons are not real things, they are artistic constructs. And the artists who create them have every right in the world to interpret them in fresh ways. Fans who complain about artists being creative rather than slavishly imitative of prior artists' work are biting the hand that feeds them, because if artists weren't free to be creative, the fans wouldn't have anything to enjoy at all.
     
  20. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Is there canonical evidence that they are native to the Milky Way?