I want Data back...

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by BillJ, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Indeed, that was kind of the thematic point of Data's sacrifice in Nemesis -- that the ultimate step in becoming more human was accepting his mortality. Unfortunately, the scene that laid the thematic groundwork for that, where Picard and Data talked about transitions and mortality after the wedding reception, was cut from the film.
     
  2. Newspaper Taxi

    Newspaper Taxi Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That was my favorite scene in Nemesis.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Except it wasn't actually in Nemesis. Which is one of the film's biggest flaws. If they'd left in that Picard-Data conversation and cut out the totally gratuitous dune-buggy chase, it would've been a considerably stronger film. (And I'm saying that as someone who likes the film.)
     
  4. NrobbieC

    NrobbieC Commander Red Shirt

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    That and the Commander Madden and seat belts
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Oh, gods, no, the Madden scene was atrocious and stupid.
     
  6. NrobbieC

    NrobbieC Commander Red Shirt

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    I thought it had its charm. Plus I did like the idea of ending the film on "where no one has gone before."
     
  7. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It should have been left in just to keep the Trek authors from going with Worf as the rather uninspired choice for first officer.
     
  8. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    You'd have to cut the scene where it's Worf who calls Picard to the bridge weeks after the battle, indicating he's still serving aboard the Enterprise. And it's a better vehicle for the character of Worf to have him as first officer than a lesser post.
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    And how is Madden not an even more uninspired choice? Just another Anglo-Saxon human male, with no specific personality of any kind? Worf, by contrast, has many years of backstory from two different series, plus a recent history as an ambassador, which is unusual in a Starfleet first officer. So there's a ton of story potential to build on, and a fair amount of novelty in the choice.
     
  10. NrobbieC

    NrobbieC Commander Red Shirt

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    Madden would be a blank slate for novelists to work with but yeah there's probably all he'd have going for him.

    I'd have preferred Worf to have gone back to being an ambassador having just been filling in for Daniels or someone. But given what happened in Change of Heart him being in a command position does give him potential.
     
  11. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Able-bodied.
    Which is fine, as long as you're not being offensive. Just because you don't care, doesn't mean who you're talking to or about won't be offended by what you say. I've never been officially declared disabled, but I have struggled with medical problems for most of my life, so I tend to be very sympathetic to what disabled people go through and I take this stuff quite seriously.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
  12. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Regardless of the moral and fan boy arguments it did seem to me that TWOK inspired 'Nemesis' was leaving the door open for Data to return if there was another sequel. Anyone disagree with that? Some cast and crew interviews suggest that also.
     
  13. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I think it's pretty clear that was the intent. But we don't know for a fact they would have completely wiped B4 out to bring back Data. And even if that was the intent, it doesn't mean it was right or that the books should be required to find it.
    EDIT: The more that I think about it, we can't even be sure that they would have brought back Data. The only reason to really bring him back would be to keep Brent Spiner around, but with B4 they already had a character for him. I'm sure they could have found ways to work B4 into a story.
     
  14. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Arex and Gabler had seatbelts almost a century earlier:

    [​IMG]
    Seatbelts by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes and no. The thing to remember is that there are different people and groups involved in making a movie, and so there can be more than one intent or purpose shaping its content. It was the studio's intent to include a back door so they could bring back Data if the movie was a hit and audiences clamored for Spiner's return. But that wasn't the intent of the people who came up with the story and script. Spiner wanted to kill off Data because he was getting too old to plausibly continue the role. His intention and his collaborators' intention was that it would be the end for Data, period. Within the context of the film as written, B-4's little song at the end is just Data's legacy, a ray of hope that B-4 can learn and grow after all thanks to what Data left him. Of course it has the secondary, backup purpose of being a potential back door for returning Data if that became an option. But that was a contingency plan, not the primary purpose of the plot development.

    You see this a lot in fiction, especially collaborative fiction. A story is told with a certain primary goal in mind, but with just a bit of a hedge thrown in just in case future creators or changing circumstances lead to a change of goals. That doesn't mean, however, that the hedge represents the creators' original or primary intent. It's just a backup plan.

    For instance, in DTI: Watching the Clock, I established a lot about the future of the Federation -- but I made sure to include a line hinting that maybe the future glimpsed there isn't the future, that there's a chance the whole thing could've been changed. That doesn't mean I intended that whole future to be non-binding; it just means that, whatever my own intentions, I recognize that I'm not the one in charge of the franchise and I have to leave some wiggle room in case other creators decided to take the continuity in an incompatible direction. If you're part of a collaborative creation, it's just good sense to leave in that kind of wiggle room -- not because you want or intend your decisions to be undone, but because you're aware that someone else may decide to undo them.
     
  16. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    For whatever it's worth, Brent Spiner mentioned that in his "Justice League of Trek" Nemesis sequel, Data would have been saved via time travel, beamed off the Scimitar a split-second before it was destroyed.
     
  17. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Good thing they didn't do a sequel then.


    Nemesis is an alternate timeline movie that can be safely ignored anyway. ;)