I want Data back...

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by BillJ, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Huh? That directly contradicts The Needs of the Many, where...
    Data's downloaded "Data Matrix" does overwrite B-4, although the situation and the way it plays out are far different to the assumptions of unjust murder mentioned above.
    It seems STO can't even keep it's tie-ins straight.
     
  2. NrobbieC

    NrobbieC Commander Red Shirt

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    I would've thought Data's memories, which would theoretically be 100% of everything Data has experienced and possibly including his thoughts, would have simply overwhelmed B-4's primitive whatchacallit creating some kind of android multiple personality disorder until one is successful. Personally I like the idea of B-4 sacrificing himself so Data can live.

    Death should be permanent every now and then though, otherwise why mourn? There should be more deaths like Tasha's, a main character should be just as vulnerable as any other.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't see it as any different from the situation with early tie-in novels like Ghost Ship for TNG. Tie-ins written before the debut of the things they're tying into have a tendency to be best guesses, and one shouldn't really expect them to be authoritative sources.

    There's also the fact that TNotM was written by a freelance novelist for Pocket, someone whose knowledge of the STO universe was secondhand (and necessarily limited since the game was still in development when he wrote the book), whereas the stories in the magazine are by the actual head writer for STO itself.
     
  4. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I think whether Data comes back or not comes down to whether the Trek novels are going to tie-in to Countdown (NOT Star Trek Online's timeline of events, although that includes Countdown too) or not. Several hints have been dropped so far, such as:

    +Picard being offered the role of Ambassador (Paths of Disharmony)

    +Spock becoming a legal resident of Romulus in 2382 (Rough Beasts of Empire)

    +The use of holographic control consoles (Titan: Synthesis)

    ...and a few others which escape me at the moment. They're by no means definitive proof of anyhing, but it would seem the writers were told or chose to leave that possibility open. What remaining contradictions between the novelverse and CD can be easily glossed over ("Oh look, they rebuilt Shi'Kahr!") or ignored (the obvious botch of a Vulcan Praetor) should that path be chosen.
     
  5. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I want Data to stay dead. Period.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wanted Kirk, Spock, Janeway and Tucker to stay dead as well. Can't always get what we want... :shrug:
     
  7. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but we're not discussing what will happen, we're discussing what we want to happen. And I want Data to stay dead.
     
  8. datalogan

    datalogan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I would prefer for Data to stay dead.

    But what I would like to see is for Maddox or someone to perfect regular positronic brain technology. Then we could have the great novel writers handle the topic of artificial lifeforms. I'm sure they'll do better than the show writers from 2+ decades ago.

    How do these new beings get their rights? How do they integrate into society without lossing their individuality? How would they choose to live? Who would control the "birth" of new androids as they were made? How would this affect holographic rights, etc?

    So, maybe a new android character, like Data. But at his/her beginning, so we can see their struggles to understand and integrate into society from the beginning. (Of course, if this was done in a realistic manner then such a being probably wouldn't be serving on any of our Starfleet ships or bases for at least 5 years in-universe. It would take time to learn and get into Starfleet, etc. Unless they "data-dump" Data's memories of Starfleet and call it good.)

    It's time for the issue of artificial beings to be really dealt with in Star Trek, not just alloded to or touched on like they did with Data or the Doctor or Vic Fontaine or the alien AIs in recent Titan novels.
     
  9. NrobbieC

    NrobbieC Commander Red Shirt

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    I've always wondered that about holograms - they've been seen to achieve sentience but can also be created as sentient. So would there be a law against creating self-aware holograms or a law against creating holograms altogether to avoid the risk of accidentally creating sentient life forms or the view that creating less developed holograms is a form of oppression...
     
  10. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's a very good point. Memory alone wouldn't be enough but while reading that I thought of other examples where similar things were done. With Zoe in Caprica and Arnold Rimmer in Red Dwarf. Definitely Zoe was different and growing more so. Rimmer retained his life essence though as supposedly his personality, skills and memory was copied.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Well, obviously there's no one set of rules that applies equally to all SF universes, except the rule that they can make up whatever rules suit their purposes. They're free to contradict each other -- or reality -- all they want, but a given fictional universe should be consistent with its own precedents. So the only examples that matter are the ones that come from the specific fictional universe you're talking about. And the precedent of Lal shows that in the Trek universe, downloading one positronic brain's memories into another positronic brain will not automatically bring the personality along with it. And what we've seen of B-4 to date -- at least onscreen and in the novel continuity -- is consistent with that precedent.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We really don't know. I'm sure Data didn't put Lal's programming in an area that would conflict with his own.
     
  13. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    No, it's a shock reveal, showing us that what some characters believed in "The Needs of the Many" was not the entire story.

    Many years ago, now, when my Amiga computer picked up its only virus, from a Star Trek trivia gaming disk that came free with a commercial Amiga magazine (so much for the old rule-of-thumb about only ever use commercial disks to avoid viruses), the first thing my computer guru did to retrieve my lost data was to shunt off a section of his own computer's memory, and temporarily store my data there. Sounds a bit like was is revealed by "Unexpected Honor".
     
  14. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I kinda like the sound of that. The interview format of TNoTM does leave quite a bit of wiggle room.

    What you mention in the spoiler could have taken place after the interview, even.
     
  15. ryan123450

    ryan123450 Commodore Commodore

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    I too think Data should stay dead. That's not to say I don't want to read new books with Data in them, but not in the "present" of the Lit-verse.
     
  16. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    An unpopular opinion, but if Data's resurrection was part of a story that "undid" all the recent post-Nemesis TNG stuff, I'd be all for it!!
     
  17. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Data is alive and well in the Abramstrek prequel comic.
     
  18. ryan123450

    ryan123450 Commodore Commodore

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    BLASPHEMY! Burn him at the stake! :p
     
  19. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I must say...I agree.

    So many characters have been resurrected, death seems only a vacation for star trek characters these days. As comics can attest to, this is not a good thing.
    Once in a while, if the writers decide for a character to die, they should deal with the aftermath of this event instead of opting for fantasy wish-fulfillment.
     
  20. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    After he's been peeled and rolled in salt...