I thought they said the JJ-comics were canon?

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by JackSparrowJive, Jun 7, 2013.

  1. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Funniest in-joke was Jeffrey Combs playing both Weyoun and Brunt in the same episode of DS9 ("The Dogs of War").
     
  2. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I bet the poor man barely got out of the makeup chair long enough to film his scenes during production of that episode.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Well, I'm sure they shot the Brunt scenes and the Weyoun scenes on different days. So it would've been the same as any other guest shoot, getting the makeup put on every morning and removed every night, except that the makeup changed halfway through the week.
     
  4. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Wasn't Bashir originally older, as well. Then they changed the character because they liked Siddig?
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I don't know about that, just that he was going to be named Julian Amoros instead. Maybe what you're thinking of is that they initially wanted Siddig for Sisko because of the commanding power he conveyed in a certain role, then were surprised when they found out he was much younger than they thought, too young to be the father of a teenager.
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Personally, I find Hertzler has a very distinctive voice, which made it clear he was the Vulcan captain in Emissary.
     
  7. Lt. Cheka Wey

    Lt. Cheka Wey Commander

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    Amoros. Seriously that would had been cheesy even in Esmeralda.
     
  8. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    True (much like Armin Shimerman does) - but if you never went to go back and rewatch "Emissary" after Martok shows up, you're not likely to twig onto his having been on the show four years earlier.
     
  9. BrentMc

    BrentMc Commander Red Shirt

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    Shoot, I thought they were canon too. I thought that was the point of the new comics being done by JJ's people. Oh well.....I enjoy the books and they are not canon. BTW I am working on my first story. Just for fun. It's not canon either, but it has been fun writing it.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The point was to keep them as consistent with canon as they could, which isn't the same thing as actually being part of the canon. But I think Bad Robot underestimated how difficult it would be to keep the tie-ins consistent with an ongoing canon. There's a reason the only really canonical novels and tie-ins (like the Del Rey Babylon 5 novels or the Buffy "Season 8/9" comics) are those that come along after the screen series has ended. Ultimately, tie-ins are always secondary to the core work and must yield to it, unless the core work ends.
     
  11. Lt. Cheka Wey

    Lt. Cheka Wey Commander

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    It's pretty easy. Teh universe is a bigplace, too bad does not have 25000 years to play with ike SW. 30000 if you include the Rakata.
     
  12. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Having to defer to a central authority on which fiction is "real" and which is the "fake fiction" is beyond silly.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It's only silly because there is no such "central authority" in the first place. No studio is going to pay someone a salary to sit around and issue instructions to the general public about what they're allowed to like. That's a complete myth and a complete misunderstanding. Canon is not a command or a policy or a regulation. It's just a description. The creators of a fictional franchise create their work, and that is something we call the canon. And no, that does not mean "real." Canons contradict and rewrite their own pasts all the time, because it's not real and thus can be changed and rethought and improved.

    And no, canon absolutely is not something that tells audiences they should only like some things and not others. Where's the percentage in telling your audience not to buy books or comics that would put more money in your coffers? The only people who use "canon" as a standard of what's admissible to enjoy are fans who impose that standard on themselves, and delude themselves into thinking they're being instructed by some higher authority.

    The reason that tie-ins aren't binding on canon isn't a matter of some "central authority" handing down ukases. It's simply a matter of practicality. Like I said above, no matter how hard you try to keep tie-ins consistent with an ongoing canon, a work of fiction is just too much of a moving target, evolving in unpredictable ways. So there has to be a core work that sets the pace and secondary works that follow its lead and risk being left behind when it veers in an unexpected direction. It's just the nature of the beast. It's not something that's dictated by some imaginary studio department or government agency or whatever; it's just the way the process happens.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  14. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    But the reverse is also silly. Imagine telling a Hollywood screenwriter that his new movie script can't be used because its whole premise was invalidated by a few panels in a tie-in comic that was seen by less than 1% of the viewing audience and has been out of print since 1972. :devil:
     
  15. Lt. Cheka Wey

    Lt. Cheka Wey Commander

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    or an episde of an obscure TNG episode. I am pretty sure that happened in Trek.
     
  16. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Bingo. That's the whole thing in a nutshell. As I've written before, this isn't a philosophical or artistic choice; it's a simple matter of practicality. No one in their right mind is going to let a movie or TV episode intended for millions of viewers be affected by something that was written in an old Greg Cox novel fifteen years ago . . . :)
     
  17. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    But you know as well as anyone that there are a chunk of fans who enjoy a work of fiction set in the Star Trek universe less if it isn't authoritatively declared "canon." There are fans who, for some reason, need that distinction made by an outside arbiter. My point is that that's silly.

    As Christopher said:
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Exactly. They believe in an "outside arbiter" that doesn't exist. It's not a matter of arbitration, just definition. Canon isn't a value judgment, it's just a thing that exists.

    The silly part is when fans complain about this nonexistent central authority imposing restrictions on their enjoyment. They don't realize that the only people imposing restrictions are themselves.
     
  19. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well so far they've done a decent job of it seeing as the only major contradictions are a few lines of dialogue.

    Thats pretty much the level of effort into continuity most long running tv shows manage. Not to mention film series, book series, and ect.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Given how much information in both film and comics is conveyed exclusively through dialogue, what would you consider to be a more major contradiction?