I hope for more traditional space battles

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Infern0, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And some of you can't make up your minds what you think of these movies:

    Right now it's a fifty/fifty chance that in May you'll declare Abrams the King of All Media again.
     
  2. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

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    The pace/speed of the action I don't think makes of breaks a battle scene, it is sense of tension and drama, very important ingredients for an action scene to be effective.

    TWoK = slow, but very effective
    ST2009 = frantic, but also very effective

    The arrogantly put 'traditional' battle scenes simply fail to express the severity of the escalated levels of conflict, and that is very poor presentation for any show/ movie of any genre.
     
  3. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    I was for it before I was against it!

    Edit--re the flip flop.
     
  4. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And, honestly, comparing "battle scenes" in a TV show like DS9 with anything from any Trek movie is laughable. Some of the fanboise just went "squeeee!" the first time they saw a bunch of CG starships all crowded into the same shot on their little TV screens and apparently have never recovered any perspective.
     
  5. Ryan8bit

    Ryan8bit Commodore Commodore

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    DS9 had some pretty respectable space battles for being just a TV show. Some of them may not have been as visually impressive as the movies (probably because of budget), but there were quite a few that were still pretty standout.

    All I really ask of space battles is that I'm able to follow the action of what's going on. The worst offender for that was the opening to Star Wars episode III.
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I'm 95% sure you two are the same person.
     
  7. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    It will until it stops being profitable.
     
  8. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. Just because something is immensely popular doesn't mean that you have to hate it. I remember being 20 and feeling giddy that I was going against the flow and liking all kinds of very unpopular stuff, and then I learned to think for myself.

    Honestly, you're a smart kid, I'm sure you realize that making a film today so that it looks like a twenty-year old television series is not only improbable, but also not the best or the most creative approach one could take.
     
  9. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't think anyone was having a dig at the visual effects, because lets face it ToS Balance of Terror cannot compare to what you see in DS9, but the former is a far superior battle scene to any in DS9 as it demonstrated better story telling.

    And this is why these calls for 'traditional' battle scenes which sort of is tolerable in mid 1990's TV will simply not work in a high budget high profile movie like Star Trek.
     
  10. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This is the meanest flame I've ever received ;).

    People can like whatever. Saying something is good because lots of people watch it and bad because not many people watch it is sheep-like and thoughtless behaviour though. It's literally just following what other people think.

    The general public don't care about Star Trek, or sci-fi in general, much and that's been the case since the original series was abruptly cancelled before it even finished its 5 year mission. Is TOS crap because it got cancelled?

    In fact, don't even answer that.

    TNG is the only Star Trek series which was a huge mainstream success during airing. Would that cause My Name Is Legion to claim it is the only good Star Trek series? Of course not. Then the spin would completely change gears.
     
  11. Ryan8bit

    Ryan8bit Commodore Commodore

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    I think DS9 had plenty of good storytelling moments intertwined with some of the battles, but that really wasn't my point, nor the one of the original post.
     
  12. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    What is it? Wreackage, saucer section over a planet, back lit by a star, with the Enterprise approaching. See, easy.

    FC battle was freaking boring. And it has nothing to do with traditional versus new, it was just a boring ass battle. The only good thing in it was the 1701-E and her entrance...which they ruin by going back to the old standby way of handling the ship in battle.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2013
  13. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Agreed. It was so boring, man. I could like see everything that was going on which nearly put me to sleep right then and there. And where were all the lights that were supposed to flash in my eyes?
     
  14. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

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    The point of the original post was the dull insipid fish tank of a 'battle scene' in first contact (which is not disimilar to any other battle scene in DS9 or Voyager) would not work in modern high budget movie. No director or producer worth his salt would put footage so maligned from being able to set the tension and danger of the antagonist.

    Let's try to re-construct the first few minutes of the Kelvin scene into something TNG/DS9/VOY evangelicalists are acustomed to.

    USS Kelvin flies past camera slowly with insipid classical music in the back ground. Hum de dum...

    Cut to bland token female navigation officer:

    Nav: "Captain, our sensor readings indicate a subspace disturbance just ahead of us"

    Robau: "Any idea what it could be officer?"

    Nav: "Not certain captain, I can increase the resolution of the sensor array but that would take additional time to process any extra data ... captain, I detect a vessel emerging from the subspace disturbance"

    Robau: "On screen"

    Viewer on, a Romulan Warbird emerges and fires 2 disruptor bolts.

    Robau: "Raise shields!"

    Green bolts of energy strike the Kelvin and absorbed by her shields.

    Camera shake...

    Robau: "Damage report"

    Token Ethnic Tactical officer: "Forward shields down to 22.5%, I am attempting to re-route aft shield power to compensate"

    Ship rocks and cue spark on various bridge command consoles.

    Token Ethnic Tactical officer: "Damage to our forward power coupling"

    Robau: "Fire phasers"

    A type-4 canon friendly phaser beam pisses out from the Kelvin's saucer section, dramatically aided by stock TNG/VOY/DS9 phaser sound effects.

    Token ethnic tactical officer: "Negligble damage sir, shall I calibrate em band frequency to penetrate their shields?"

    Ship rocks again.

    "Shields down, forward power couplings offline, primary warp coolant conduits offline, captain"

    Robau: "Tell them we surrender and are willing to negiotate"
     
  15. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing to do with seeing what was going on. You can see what's going on in ST 09. It has to do with it being another boring Borg battle with zero tension.
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :wtf:

    Science-fiction and fantasy films usually do pretty well at the box office.

    Honestly, TOS ran longer than it probably should have based on the time-period in which it was produced. Whether it's the 60's, 80's, 90's or the 21st century, you have to produce material people want to watch. Trek didn't evolve with the rest of the TV/movie business, which is why it fell on its collective ass in the early 21st century.
     
  17. The Stig

    The Stig Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I guess it all depends on whether or not you want an action sequence to be immersive and immediate or objective and detached. Do you want to be caught up in the terror facing a small survey ship faced with impossible odds or do you want to be impressed by the tactical maneuvers of the attacking ship? I much prefer something that draws me in to the situation and makes me feel like I'm there, in the moment.
     
  18. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Deep Space Nine is not a movie, it is a television show and sci-fi shows generally don't last long. Networks are scared to commission them over other types of programming. The idea that DS9 failed, even though it ran for 7 seasons is absurd. Though it also comes from the man who thinks that modern Trek was a flop because it only ran for 25 seasons. It seems the only criteria for something not being a failure is if JJ Abrams is involved, at which point it becomes genius.

    I don't have to be spoonfed and can be engaged with something shown from an objective point of view.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Who thinks that Modern Trek was a flop?

    TV execs are scared to commission sci-fi because it costs more to produce with less expected audience.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But either can be a good choice.