I hope for more traditional space battles

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Infern0, Feb 4, 2013.

  1. Infern0

    Infern0 Captain Captain

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    Something i thought XI was lacking was space battles.

    Granted they were a visual feast, but the romulan vessel was never fully seen, and the weapons used were bizzare. It became more transformers than Star Trek in that departmant I felt.

    Compare that to the Borg Cube vs Starfleet in First Contact and I know which I prefer
     
  2. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

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    I found that 95% of space battles in star trek very bland and clinical. Especially anything with the Borg in it.

    I liked the scene between the Narada and the Kelvin, it was visceral which set a real sense of danger and showed how fragile humans are in space.

    Same goes for Wrath of Khan, it wasn't a lighting fast battle but a slow one, however because it again strips our heros bare and vulnerable to danger and makes the space battle far more effective than 100 ships whizzing around shooting orange coloured beams.
     
  3. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'd rather have a brain hemmorhage than be sujected to anything that old Trek fans would describe as "traditional".
     
  4. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You kids and your new tv shows and movies with the whizzing exploding stuff every 5 seconds. In my day we didn't have CGI. We had strings. STRINGS! But you know what, we also had something called drama and character development and longer Attention spans. Now it's all explody this and ships crashing into planets. You need to have your ipoohs taken off you and be locked in a room with a tv for 1 hour. I bet you couldn't take it! In 5 minutes you's be beggin to pause it and check your e-mails.

    Edit: Sorry I should say "check your twits" I forgot e-mail is already outdated. Having to read more than 2 sentences must be draining for you guys.
     
  5. Shilliam Watner

    Shilliam Watner Commander

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    Just what is traditional?
     
  6. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'd love some more traditional Star Trek battles that imitate those of naval submarines over the more Star Wars-esque ones we get now. More cerebral and claustrophobic.

    As a Star Trek fan, I like it when Star Trek resembles Star Trek.
     
  7. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Me too. I far prefer the Abrams version. :techman:
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Other than really getting to see the damage being done belowdecks with each hit instead of it all represented by exploding control panels on the bridge, were the space battles in Star Trek that different from what came before?

    Certainly nothing resembling Transformers. Is that referring to the Narada's cluster bombs? And actually seeing the missiles themselves rather than glowing halos of energy?
     
  9. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It may sound like a good idea to keep it traditional, to keep it in the family so to speak, but after a couple of generations of inbreeding, your Star Trek doesn't so much resembles Star Trek as cousin Bert, the hideously deformed midget who lives in the cupboard in a pool of piss and dribble, smelling like a deranged monkey and waiting for the first occasion to go outside and tear people's throats with his four good teeth.
     
  10. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Regurgitate Abrams' hum-drum spin as much as you like, it still won't sound like anything but an excuse to make Star Trek more bland and colourless. It doesn't kill my earnest belief that the more strategic submarine-esque combat was more interesting as it didn't resemble all the other big franchise's space battles.
     
  11. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sure, because submarine combat is anything but bland and colorless. My three-legged cat Ernie doesn't resembles the other big franchise's space battles either, but that doesn't mean you'd want to see him on the big screen.

    Ultimately, it has nothing to do with Abrams, it has nothing to do with tradition, it has nothing to do with personal preferences, even. Some people just want their Star Trek fix and others want something more.
     
  12. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'd say it has everything to do with personal preference.
     
  13. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You are right, I apologize. What I should have said is that it has nothing to do with taste.
     
  14. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

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    Well I mentioned in my first post that Wrath of Khan was successful with this, and my next memory of something of this quality would be from the Balance of Terror.

    When a ship got hit, the crew knew about it.

    Every battle from TNG, TNG-era movies, DS9, Voy were complete opposites of this, it was high tempo exchanges of beam weapons that made very little visceral impact- I can even go as far as the background 'battle' music was just as insipid!
     
  15. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And kids, multitasking is not a good thing. Pick one task, concentrate on it, do it well, then move on. In my day, multitasking was called, "being distracted." [Sorry, piling on, there.]

    The space battle in TWOK was the best space battle in Trek, in my opinion. Those were models with 1980s technology, and the FX still hold up pretty well, today. When the Enterprise rises behind the Reliant, the hair stands up on the back of my neck.
     
  16. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    True enough, however claiming that it was good is one thing, but saying that we want more of the same is a completely different thing.
     
  17. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh, yeah. It's just still my standard of comparison for having "FX kewl" action, but also being evocative and creating the right amount of tension. The attack on the Kelvin had that, too.
     
  18. Worfmonger

    Worfmonger Commander Red Shirt

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    I love the space battles in TWoK and ST'09; I think they're two takes on the same type of battle, though TWoK is limited in detail by the film spfx of the time. You're more in the action in ST'09, imho, as opposed to observing the action in TWoK. I think Undiscovered Country did a nice job with space battles, too, btw.

    The DS9 battles were sorely limited by budget, so I'm willing to give them a pass.

    What I hated was the battle scenes in all of the TNG movies, most particularly Nemesis. The swooping around like these gigantic ships are X-Wings did not set well with me at all.

    YMMV, of course.
     
  19. Infern0

    Infern0 Captain Captain

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    well they were a lot more advanced ships so better speed and maneuverability is probably to be expected.

    I like the Abrams trek just fine but I don't subscribe to the same level of worship that a lot do on here namely "The Abrams way is the right way"

    I PREFER the older style trek battles, where the camera is zoomed out a little more so you can see the whole ships, its slower paced so you can tell what's happening, where are the weapons hitting, what damage is being done etc.

    Star Trek 11 basically threw shields out of the window, "shields, what shields" every single shot tore through everything and sent explosions and lens flare going insane, this may be excusable because the romulan vessel had 24th century tech, but this time they cant use that excuse.

    here is a space battle in Abrams trek

    http://www.cardassiaprimera.com.ar/Star-Trek-XI-Battle.jpg


    here is a space battle in first contact

    http://mimg.ugo.com/201008/55233/cuts/firstcontacthd0255_480x270.jpg

    [Images converted to links. Images posted inline must be hosted on your own web space. - M']

    point is, I could tell what was happening in one, the other one, not so much.

    the word cluster**** comes to mind.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2013
  20. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And appropriately, the word is full of stars. :)

    That's a fair point, but one could argue that real battles of any kind are much more chaotic than anything you could picture on a movie screen. The old-style Trek battles, while not without merits, felt more like wargames than reality.