I have a confession to make

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Pasi Nurminen, Jun 10, 2014.

  1. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like Nemesis, a lot even. It's flawed, but still enjoyable. As the last TNG movie, I think if the ending had been a little more upbeat it would be better remembered. Data dying and Picard's "family" scattering and his "son" dying - which brought up all the issues of all the other deaths in his family,it's pretty grim. Riker getting his own captaincy and marrying Troi were nice developments, but we needed more of that. At the least, let Beverly and Picard finally get together, and maybe do a little more with Wesley. With Shizon as the bad son, Wesley as the counterpart good son could've been a really neat theme to deal with. Give Picard a family, happy ending, heck, do the inevitable B4 as Data that was being telegraphed anyways.
     
  2. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think NEM is as bad as it is made out to be, but that's not to say the film isn't without issues, they could have dropped the whole b-4 sub-plot and the film I don't think would really have suffered..
     
  3. Pasi Nurminen

    Pasi Nurminen Lieutenant Commander

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    It would have worked better if the villain wasn't ultimately so cartoonish. Instead of blowing up Earth, if his objective had been more subtle, more nuanced.
     
  4. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    I don't dislike Nemesis. Not my favorite...but I don't hate it.

    I have a particular affinity for Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home and like most people, First Contact.

    I enjoy the whale story. It makes me crack up! I don't care if some people think it's dumb. haha :lol:
     
  5. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah he was a tad cartoony. :lol:

    Very "I'm going to trick you into liking me!" and then "MWAHAHAHHA I TRICKED YOU GOOD! I shall now act EVIL!"
     
  6. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    And yeah...they shouldn't have killed Data. That was not cool. Not cool at all. :(
     
  7. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't rank Nemesis very high on the movie scale. As I have said before, I have seen 500 films better than it. I rank them alongside the TNG Films, of which, Nemesis is my distant 2nd favorite. When I watch it, I turn off my inner-critic and just try to get lost in the story.

    It's really a matter of taste, but I prefer seeing the movie where they are not simply facing an enemy that needs a better phaser or a more powerful weapon. I enjoy watching them as detectives and explorers. I prefer the movie that creates two cultures and gives equal weight to them both. I enjoy the moral conundrum and the prism of entertainment to reflect what has happened in real life, as Star Trek often does. That film is Star Trek: Insurrection, and I watch it, on average, once-a-week. The fact is the Ba'ku are conceptually a Dominion War response that doesn't screw DS9. We found the Borg in the Delta Quadrant, the Dominion in the Gamma, if we continue to explore, aren't there at least a few xenophobes in the audience, wondering what is next? Also, the tone of the movie is perfect because a reaction to death and loss is to rejoice when the darkness is over, to relish the little things in life. So Data pets a fish because he lost a friend in the war, that type of thing.

    As for Nemesis, as I have said before, I like the interplay with Picard and Shinzon. I sometimes fast-forward the action scenes and just watch Picard meet him, Picard have dinner with Shinzon, Picard get captured by Shinzon, and then the Ready-Room scene. It's interesting. As for the action sequences, I wasn't into it in the movie theater and I certainly am not into it now. They are so anti-climatic because we know the Enterprise won't be destroyed and the only thing at stake is destroying the Enterprise and killing the crew. If Riker was killed in the bowels of the ship, if the action wasn't so poorly done, maybe I give them a second glance, but the action is truly terrible and too much of the movie is about the action. Consider me burned out on Star Trek action sequences where nothing is lost, they always win, and no one in the cast is ever hurt.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts:

    1. Insurrection
    2. Nemesis
    3. Generations
    4. First Contact
     
  8. martok2112

    martok2112 Commodore Commodore

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    Nemesis lover right here!
    Flawed as the movie was, it is also my favorite of any of the TNG movies.

    1. It actually looked and felt like a big screen movie, whereas the previous three TNG flicks looked more like overblown, two part TNG episodes. They certainly worked better on the small screen, full frame format, than they did as an attempt at big screen movies.

    2. Jerry Goldsmith really delivered on a kick ass score. I loved the uptempo opening cue as the camera closes in on Romulus and the Imperial Senate. Got my blood going and my foot tapping. (I certainly liked it better than his opening theme to First Contact, which, in my very humble opinion, should've also sounded much more ominous ala Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, and then ended with its more uplifting and hopeful end titles music.)

    3. Picard driving a dune buggy! To me, that was great....to see Picard do something that made most fanboys quiver...to see Picard do something fun, and have it end up in a cool action beat.

    4. Shinzon, not so much for the character, but for the actor who portrayed him (Tom Hardy). I thought Hardy brought a very cool, naturalistic and understated edge to Shinzon. Much of what HaventGotALife stated was pretty much what I enjoyed about Shinzon and Picard. Those conversations...the dinner, Picard's capture, and the holographic meeting in Picard's ready room....those were some very well done scenes.

    5. The space battle! HOLY SHIT! This thing took up practically the entire last half of the movie. And what I really loved about it....the fact that it wasn't "two battle effects shots, and twenty internal shots of the crew getting thrown around, announcing...'incoming fire'!" It was a full on, knock down, drag out, no holds barred space battle. The budget certainly reflected on this well.

    6. The Enterprise/Scimitar ramming scene! Yes, there should've been no survivors whatsoever, but this was a pure-adrenaline, space-fantasy action moment that rocked both the big screen, and the Dolby units that supported its audio. This shot alone was worth the price of admission in my book.

    7. The end titles (as per the DVD/Blu-ray versions). The end titles in the theatrical release, and the Official Soundtrack were, as usual, serene and understated. But the end titles as played in the DVD version screamed "big screen Trek epic"! To me, the score for Nemesis was the late, great Jerry Goldsmith's best score since "Star Trek The Motion Picture".

    But, that's just me.... :) I was raving about the movie after I saw it theatrically on opening night. My friends were not so forgiving, and one even said: "Dude, we serious have got to get you to stop defending this movie." LOL!
     
  9. martok2112

    martok2112 Commodore Commodore

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    "And EVIL will always triumph, because GOOD is DUMB!" :D
     
  10. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Or as Mammy Yokum said, "Good is better than evil cause it's nicer."
     
  11. martok2112

    martok2112 Commodore Commodore

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  12. RainKing

    RainKing Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    "And EVIL will always triumph, because GOOD is DUMB!"

    Man, I love that line. :)
     
  13. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    The problem wasn't so much Shinzon was threatening Earth as it was his plans for Earth just get revealed just before the final battle, and even then, it's out of the blue with no motivation behind it. "I spent my whole life abused and tortured by Romulans, but I'm going to take my anger out on Earth."

    One kind of gets the impression Paramount listened to the criticisms about Insurrection failing because Earth wasn't in danger, and felt a threat to Earth had to be shoe-horned into Nemesis.
     
  14. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    TWOK worked no threat to Earth
    TUC worked no immediate threat to Earth
     
  15. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    Ladies love Riker's beard.
    Not sure how that's the case. Carson, Frakes, and Abrams have done much more compelling work on TV than Baird has done on the big screen. Not to dismiss Baird entirely though, I think he's one of the best editors working in the business today and was happy that he went back to that profession after his brief run in directing.
     
  16. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Well, it is a criticism people have always made (and some still do make) against Insurrection.
     
  17. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't need Earth to be involved to get invested in the story. Insurrection had a lot of problems, but a lack of threat to Earth wasn't one of them.
     
  18. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    Ladies love Riker's beard.
    Problem is that most of the successful Trek films did feature Earth being put in danger, so it's become part of the formula on how to make a successful Trek film, with only NEMESIS being the clear exception as that tanked.
     
  19. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My take was that the destruction of Earth wasn't one of Shizon's priorities. Rather it was a promise he made to the Romulan military in exchange for their co-operation, the Simitar could only be in one place at a time and Shizon needed the Romulan military to control the empire. Failure to live up to his promise relatively quickly would result in the military turning on him.

    :)
     
  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Except, the reason Donatra turned on Shinzon was because she believed he would destroy Earth. And it was this belief she expressed to Commander Suran to convince him to move against Shinzon as well.
     

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