I am taking command of the fleet.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Captrek, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    That brings up a frightening prospect, though: that Picard could wake up one day as Locutus again.

    It's unfortunate that the Borg went from "don't care about you" to "assimilate some cultures sometimes" to "always assimilates everyone" to "can't do anything except assimilating" in the span between 1988 and 2001. I thought the Borg were at their most interesting right at the cliffhanger of BOBW Part 1.
     
  2. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    That's Flanderization for you.
     
  3. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    I didn't want to use the term because I didn't know if anybody would get it. :)
     
  4. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    That's why I linked it to TV Tropes.
     
  5. Marcus Porcius Cato

    Marcus Porcius Cato Commander Red Shirt

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    Since "First Contact" take after "Paradise Lost" could the Fleet HQ lack a lot of admirals after Hayes was killed?

    I for one would not summon aggressive admirals in the capital after an attempted coup
     
  6. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I actually think that's something Starfleet (or rather, Starfleet Medical) investigated thoroughly off-screen. I don't believe Starfleet would let Picard stay in command of the Enterprise (or in Starfleet period) if there was any chance he could revert back to Locutus.

    I think any lingering doubts Starfleet may have had with Picard wasn't about whether he could become a Borg again but rather about his ability to remain cool and not become "an unstable element" if he faced them in battle again.
    It could be that Borg are not monolithic and sometimes their objectives change as circumstances demand. Periodically, the Borg may have to undergo periods of heavy assimilation to increase their numbers quickly sometimes (it may take too long for baby Borg to grow up whenever they need a lot of drones).
     
  7. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Well if they did, though, wouldn't they spot anything left in his system that could account for his lingering contact with the collective ?

    I watched the movie yesterday and I realised Starfleet was right. Picard almost sacrifices his crew and the future of humanity because of his vendetta. If not for Lily, he would have.

    That could make sense. As it stands, it just seems like lazy writing, and turning the borg into another culture of hats.
     
  8. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would think so. At least anything physically.
    Yeah, he did have his "Captain Ahab" moment and wanted to make the Borg pay for what they done, making that his sole focus for awhile.
    There could be truth to that, but it's also somewhat par for the course in Trek to add different layers to various cultures over time. Even the otherwise steadfast Vulcans were revealed to not always have been so nice during ENT. And the Klingons went from sneaky tricksters to an honor-bound warrior society.
     
  9. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    I sort of doubt it. At that point, they didn't even appear to know about the Borg nanoprobes (even though an injection made Picard go grey in "BoBW pt I"); they might very well have thought that taking out the macroscopic add-ons would be the end of it.

    It's not as if the contact is "lingering" but more like "dormant", only manifesting on certain encounters and not on others. That would jibe well with a subspace transceiver that is built by the nanoprobes as needed and then torn down again.

    ...Both cases allowing us to argue that nothing really changed. Vulcans were assholes in "Amok Time" and "Journey to Babel", and Klingons played dirty also well beyond TOS. But that would be selling the writers short, as they indeed added complexity to aliens originally created to serve a single dramatic purpose. They just didn't do it at the cost of the original characterizations.

    It should also be remembered that Vulcans and Klingons were familiar to our heroes from way back even when first introduced. The Borg were alien. I'm a big fan of what was done to them subsequently - essentially, our heroes' initial assessment was proven categorically wrong, just as it should be. Despite Q's lies, the Borg weren't uninterested in people; they were merely uninterested in our heroes. Take that, Picard! Despite having babies in drawers, they didn't procreate; Q told them as much, but again in the form of a lie, as we later appear to learn that a Borg Drone doesn't exactly cease to be male or female for good, it merely stops manifesting those attributes much. The heroes even got the concept of the Collective all wrong, being unaware of such key nuances as the Queen or the Vinculum. And the thing is, they couldn't have known better, and definitely shouldn't.

    Timo Saloniemi
     

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