I am taking command of the fleet.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Captrek, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Had some no-name with the correct rank pips shown up and claimed the right to command, it would have been an easy decision - better him than me, the skippers would think. But with Picard/Locutus, it's a choice between salvation by an expert Borg-fighter or assimilation in the hands of the most infamous traitor in recent history, except you can't really choose...

    I wonder how many of those captains told their Tactical Officers to slave the weapons to commands from the Enterprise, and how many told them to clandestinely lock them onto her?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, but Janeway recognized him by his reputation as a captain, had records of his tactics all of which suggest he'd been a captain for awhile back before they got lost. Nothing concrete, but it's a reasonable conclusion he'd been a captain for some time.

    As for your point about keeping the E-E on the sidelines due to not having worked out the kinks, that's a relevant example and a good one. Crusher did ask if they felt they needed more shakedown time. Though the movie shot that possibility down too since Picard told Riker they had faith in the ship, but not Picard. Which would argue it being silly to sideline "the most advanced ship in the fleet."

    Really that made no sense at all being even hardass Necheyev had not qualms about keeping Picard in command against the Borg in Decent and Riker was -the- veteran against them after all. Except to my original point, the script requires Picard to charge in and save the day. :p
     
  3. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The single cube here and in BOBW seem at odds with Guinan's statement in Q Who:

    Speculative wank: the bulk of the Borg fleet is in the Delta Quadrant and it would take many years for them to get to Earth. They don't have a lot of cubes available for Alpha Quadrant operations, and that's why they use only one when they expect one to be sufficient.

    The idea that it would take years for Borg to get from Delta to Alpha would seem to be contradicted by VOY:Endgame, but at the time that BOBW and FC were made, Endgame hadn't even been conceived.

    I find it interesting that Janeway's Endgame tactic is the same one used by the Borg in FC: traveling back in time with modern military technology to attack a relatively primitive enemy before they developed the means to defend themselves against it.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. But since Ransom himself never presses this point, we could deduce that the difference in seniority is a slight one, a technicality Ransom would be downright embarrassed to make use of. Perhaps he is the underdog, even, albeit with the narrowest of margins?

    Saying "I have the ship with the better survival odds" counts for more in the Delta Quadrant environment than mere "I am entitled to command by Starfleet regulations", so it's quite natural for Janeway to go for that angle and for Ransom to acquiesce. If it became a battle of seniority, that is, experience, the two skippers could debate their Delta Quadrant -specific merits till the cows beam home, but the "Mine is bigger" thing is concise and satisfactory.

    That's just a bitter old man speaking - I wouldn't take it too seriously.

    And that's probably it - Picard's status, like that of all other Captains, depends on the backing they receive from the higher levels, and Nechayev just happened to lose some of her political power prior to ST:FC (or decided to drop patronage of Picard in order to retain such power).

    ...Which may prove that the Borg had different goals, ones the heroes or Guinan had no experience on. Janeway was surprised to learn in "Child's Play" that the Borg "cultivated" cultures by indeed attacking them piecemeal and then reaping the countermeasures the victims would develop, time and again. The Borg might be doing this with Earth, even though our heroes mistake it for assimilarion - or they might do other things piecemeal, too, and neither the heroes nor the audience can really understand what is going on this time around.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013
  5. Corran Horn

    Corran Horn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    :lol:
     
  6. shatastrophic

    shatastrophic Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't think it had anything to do with ranks and such. Talk is cheap so there's alot of it. I think every Captain, or officer placed in the captain's seat, took stock of the situation and tried to know about every other ship that was in on the encounter, and which fellow captains they would be fighting with. Im sure every other ship's sensors detected the Enterprise arriving and some of the captains were probably great with it, while others might've been worried.

    Then the admiral's ship is destroyed and without skipping a beat Picard is on the airwaves saying he has command and to target all of their weapons onto specific coordinates. All of the other captains, whether they were worried or not, had to follow suit as the blown up admirals plan of taking as many pot shots as you could at the thing wasn't working.

    Sure you could go back and ask why this happened or why that happened. But as the situation played out it called for the unusual to occur. These people are Starfleet Captains, working "on the fly" is about 80 percent of their job. The decision came down to; Picards here with that new ship we've heard about telling us to fire at these coordinates vs. Picard's here saying he's in command, should we follow?
     
  7. Mark_Nguyen

    Mark_Nguyen Commodore Commodore

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    Most of us thought that the battle had been going for quite some time, and that most, if not all of the ships left by the time the E-E were in the condition in which we saw the Defiant, or worse. Then, the tired, haggard remaining Captains see the shiny, undamaged Enterprise come sailing in with full shields and weapons blazing. Seconds later Picard is on the horn with plan. After hours (days?) of combat with no real result, darn straight they'll follow it.

    Mark
     
  8. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Captain Captain

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    Why didn't Picard gave the coordinates of the weak section the moment the battle begun?
    Shouldn't every ship in the fleet know the weak points of the Borg?
     
  9. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Picard didn't know where the weak section was until after the Enterprise arrived, and only then through his tenuous connection to the Borg. The moment he discovered it, he immediately had its coordinates relayed to the rest of the fleet.
     
  10. Mark_Nguyen

    Mark_Nguyen Commodore Commodore

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    Guess it had something to do with being in closer proximity to a Borg ship (and its vinculum, if you REALLY want to believe that sort of thing exists) allowing him to pick up on various drones' status reports to the hive mind. I think the novelization has prose to the effect of Picard hearing voices saying there was significant damage in a particular place which would allow a fatal, cascading explosion if hit. Or something.

    In any case, he had to get close enough to go from spooky flashback dreams to actual contact. This continued through the rest of the movie as he was able to hear snippets of what the queen was up to in the basement.

    Mark
     
  11. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    The fleet had probably been fighting the Borg for days before the Enterprise arrives. The battle had limped back to Earth's own doorstep, and countless how many ships have been left in the Cube's wake. The couple guys left are probably a small rabble compared to the fleet that actually engaged the Borg off-screen earlier in the battle. So they probably aren't likely to start picking nits when Enterprise (a ship which had been deliberately left clear from the conflict, so therefore probably in better battle condition than most of 'em by that point) flies in and takes the place of the destroyed flagship.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed that the fight from Typhon sector to Earth may well have taken days. But if so, there would probably also have been time for Starfleet to send in reinforcements, and to keep organizing the battle so that the constant losses would not pose a problem in leadership...

    Picard would have exploited a brief opportunity rather than an inevitable and permanent collapse of the chain of command, then.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Back to the opening post.....

    Wasn't it just a case of they were getting their butt kicked and Picard, one of their finest, (with a history of fighting the Borg) sounded like he knew what to do?
     
  14. Tom

    Tom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Another reason that Starfleet may have want the enterprise kept away from the the battle is that it was the most advanced ship in the fleet and they would not want to the Borg to get there hands on it.
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. I'm sure everyone recognized him, and were quite happy to yield command to a proven leader. They wouldn't blame him for being Locutus, because everyone knows that drones have no choice when they're assimilated. Not even Picard.
     
  16. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Boy they're sure lucky they just didn't use voice clips of him from when he was Locutus to patch together a message. "This is Captain Picard. Lower your shields. It will confuse the Borg targetting sensors." :p
     
  17. Marcus Porcius Cato

    Marcus Porcius Cato Commander Red Shirt

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    Why not both?
     
  18. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Though one could argue the case the Enterprise was responding to a distress call, during the audio of the battle, you hear a call for more ships. So the fleet or a ship within the fleet was sayiung we need help. Yes I know it's a stretch. Though as it turns out HQ was right about Picard becomming emotionally involved.
     
  19. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Why did the borg send 1 cube when it has millions?
    Because assimilating the distant federation is very low on its list of priorities - as is obvious despite the federation's and some fans' preconceptions. 1 cube every few years is the limit of the resources it's willing to commit to federation assimilation.

    Why doesn't the borg travel back in time in the delta quadrant? Because it'll miss out on all the technological goodies the federation accumulated in 400 years. If there's a chance it can get them in the 24th century, it won't waste this chance.
    The borg only used time travel as a last resort in order to get something out of the resources it invested in an assimilation.

    The question is: why doesn't the federation use time travel in order to erase the borg from existence by preventing their emergence?
     
  20. yenny

    yenny Captain Captain

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    The reason why Picard could take over the command of the fleet, is he had the rank of Fleet Captain and plus, the Enterprise is the flag ship of star fleet.