How Would You Recommend DS9 To A New Viewer?

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by Luther Sloan, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. Luther Sloan

    Luther Sloan Captain Captain

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    How Would You Recommend DS9 To A New Viewer?

    This thread is a spin off from another thread. It is about how you would recommend on how to watch Deep Space Nine to a new viewer. Would you tell them to watch the series from the very beginning? Would you give them a handful of select episodes to watch? Would you start them off with the cliffhanger episode in Season 3 and have them continue on in Seasons 4-7?

    Please share your thoughts and opinions on the matter. It would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you.

    Sincerely,

    ~J.
     
  2. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    Show them If Wishes Were Horses.

    I personally found The Emissary to be a rather good introduction. It just seems that the rest of the season doesn't really deal with the themes introduced and explored in Emissary.

    But it's always fun to start watching something from the 4th season. I know I watched Buffy 4-7 first, and when coming to 1-3, I was like "wtf is this shit?" and am still incapable of understanding those people who say Buffy peaked in season 3.

    Starting with a middle season always leaves a different idea what the show is about. Or perhaps not always.

    Okay, I'm out of this thread now in fear of spoilers.
     
  3. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I say, show them a selection of season 1 episodes, skipping all the bad ones and most of the average ones. Emissary, Duet, In The Hands of the Prophets, and maybe in between 2 or 3 that introduce something important to the characters (I'd include Past Prologue for the introduction of Garak, Jake/Nog friendship and the development of Kira; not sure about the rest, but I haven't rewatched the entire season 1 in a long time). Then proceed to season 2, and if they are still not hooked, skip the bad episodes in the middle, like Second Sight, Melora, Rivals etc. All in all, this would make just about 20 or so episodes, and you already have most of the characters established (including Garak, Dukat, Winn) and all the important plots introduced: Sisko as the Emissary and the religious arc, Bajoran and Cardassian cultures and internal politics, the background of the Occupation of Bajor and Bajor/Cardassia relations, Kira's past, Odo's search for his origins, Garaks' mysterious past, the Ferengis, Dax's ties to the Klingons, the Maquis, the Dominion.

    You may also tell them that there is a huge war in the later seasons and that the show gets really awesome and more consistent by that point, but that's all in the way of spoilers I'd reveal.
     
  4. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd promise them cake and then get them to undergo a series of challenging puzzles, and at the end I'd burn them in a fire.

    Wait, that's what I'd do if I was malevolent AI. :shifty:

    I'd tell them to watch from the beginning, because that's the most rewarding way of doing it, in my opinion. If they found season 1 too hard to get into I'd tell them to watch a select few episodes such as Captive Pursuit, Vortex, Duet and ITHOTP, then the Circle trilogy. If they still weren't into the show at that point I'd go the nuclear route; The Jem'Hadar, The Search, Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast, The Way of the Warrior and The Visitor. If that doesn't pique their interest then it's a lost cause. :shrug:
     
  5. Withers

    Withers Captain

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    I'd show them what I think exemplifies DS9 and that, to me, is exploration of morality. If I had just one chance to hook a new comer I'd probably show them In the Pale Moonlight even though the roles of the characters and their behavior wouldn't be as "shocking" if you didn't know Sisko or Garak or the war or any of that. I think the dialogue in the episode would be enough to convey what made the show worth watching (for me anyway.) If that was too complicated for them I'd refer them to the Star Wars prequels and politely ask them to exit my home and never return.


    -Withers-​
     
  6. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "Emissary", "Duet", "In the Hands of the Prophets", "The Wire". Those would be my picks - go in early and strong, basically.
     
  7. carlmarx

    carlmarx Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Id probably choose

    Emissary
    Past Prologue - intro to Garak, character clashes between Kira and Sisko that I feel are necessary.
    Captive Pursuit - nothing crucial, just a great episode.
    Vortex - Odo back story.
    Duet - classic, and the best to deal with the Occupation.
    ITHOTP - intro to Kai Winn and Bajoran politics and culture.

    The Circle Trilogy, but only if they really showed interest in ITHOTP-type storylines.
    Invasive Procedures - great Dax episode.
    Necessary Evil - necessary awesomeness.
    The Maquis - a small but always well-played storyline.
    The Wire - intro to Enabran Tain. Again, not totally crucial, but it makes Improbable Cause/Die Is Cast and Purgatory's Shadow hit harder.
    The Collaborator - see Circle Trilogy
    The Jem'Hadar

    Then everything else.
     
  8. carlmarx

    carlmarx Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh, and Whispers!
     
  9. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On another observation, if you want to introduce a TNG fan to DS9... "The Way of the Warrior" is the best way to go. Very TNG heavy, and really what made me a fan of DS9 (the really stellar dialogue is one of the reasons, though.)
     
  10. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Personally, I wouldn't even try. I'm more of a "Let them come to us!" kind of Niner.:evil:

    That said, I managed to hook a friend on the show in the following manner:

    Step 1: Get drunk.
    Step 2: Get talking about sci-fi in general.
    Step 3: Talk about current state of sci-fi, specifically nuBSG.
    Step 4: Make the Moore connection to DS9, and detail (without spoiling!) what made that series so awesome.
    Step 5: Loan S2.
    Step 6: Wait until he's finished the whole series.
    Step 7: Lose profit getting drunk again while going on about how awesome DS9 is.
     
  11. Teiwaz

    Teiwaz Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Step 1 - Know your audience - I've introduced friends to many different shows. Best way is to find out (if you don't already know) which kinds of story are more likely to get them interested - there's nothing more likely to put them off than showing them their first episode of a show they have reservations about and you've selected an episode which does'nt 'float their boat'.

    Step 2 - Character introductions - If you know their just looking for the opportunity to experience a new story or saga, beginning with the first episode is a good idea (as long as its not a floppsie, both DS9 and STNG have good introductions (Picards emergence from the shadows is quite good (a little twee, but good). Babylon 5 unfortunately doesn't have a good intro. Ds9's is good if the audience is already familar with STNG.

    Step 3 - Suggest follow-ups - If the like the first episode you showed them, suggest a line-up of similar episodes.
     
  12. Diddle

    Diddle Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If I were to recommend any of the Star Trek series I'd say for them to skip the pilot as if it never occurred, and jump right through good halfway second season (In TNG/Voyager's case, mostly). In DS9 particularly I'd tell them to watch the Dominion War-related episodes, plus highlighting episodes like The Way of a Warrior, Cardassian-related or even the Mirror Episodes. I'd say that Far Beyond the Stars is a great episode and everyone should watch it, but there's not much of Star Trek as a whole on the episode, so I wouldn't exactly recommend them watching it first thing, but after they get to know the main characters.

    The thing with DS9 is that you have seven seasons with a lot of pretty awesome episodes, but a lot (more) of shitty/pointless ones, it's pretty hard to get into the series, but once/if you do, you can't get enough of it.

    I honestly would never recommend anyone to watch any of the series from the first season, would be just a waste of time. (Except maybe TOS, since the first two seasons were great and the third one that actually sucked, but by the time they got to third season they would probably already like the series enough to overlook who bad it was)

    But still that's just my opinion, before I watch a series completely I try to get to know the characters by reading summaries and watching those episodes that sounds cool, after watching the good ones, I watch the rest of the series, since by that I'd like it enough to stand 40m of watching paint dry.
     
  13. Luther Sloan

    Luther Sloan Captain Captain

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    If I knew they were committed to doing a DS9 Marathon with me I would show them...

    1. TNG - Best of Both Worlds Part 1 & 2 (Battle at Wolf 359)
    2. DS9 - Emissary Part 1 & 2 (Sisko loses Jennifer at Wolf 359)
    3. DS9 - Crossover (1st DS9 Mirror Universe episode)
    4. DS9 - Thru The Looking Glass (Sisko is able to say goodbye to Jennifer)
    5. DS9 - Adversary (Sisko & Yates already dating. Dominion War heats up)
    6. Way of the Warrior Part's 1 & 2 (Worf joins the crew)
    7. DS9 - All of Season's 4-7 (Dominion War)


    If I gave them the DVDs or Convinced Them into Renting Them...

    1. DS9 - Adversary
    2. DS9 - Season's 4-7


    If I knew they loved the first two seasons of TNG and or slow moving dramas...

    1. TNG - Best of Both Worlds Part 1 & 2 (If they haven't seen it)
    2. DS9 - Season's 1-7
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2010
  14. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, the actual Dominon War started in the last episode of Season 5. Seasons 4 and 5 do show the lead up to the war, but some of the best Dominion stuff is in Season 3 - surely you've got to at least show them The Search and Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast?

    It's a tough thing to recommend a show to someone with the caveat that the first season isn't very good and the second is wildly inconsistent. If I were trying to get someone interested in the show I'd start them off with the pilot so they understand the basics of what's going on, then I'd show them Necessary Evil, which in my opinion is the best episode of the first two seasons. I think if there's one episode that could show a new viewer how good DS9 can be without giving away too much about important plot developments (I'd never show a new viewer The Jem'Hadar or The Search for that reason), it's that one.

    If someone was absolutely determined not to sit through the inconsistent early stages I'd say it's OK to watch selected highlights of Seasons 1 and 2 and then start watching every episode from The Jem'Hadar onwards. Those selected episodes would be:

    Emissary
    Duet
    In the Hands of the Prophets
    The Homecoming - The Circle - The Siege
    Cardassians
    Necessary Evil
    Whispers
    Profit and Loss
    (OK, it's not that important, I just really like it!)
    The Maquis
    The Wire
    Crossover

    Still, it's best to watch the whole thing.
     
  15. Luther Sloan

    Luther Sloan Captain Captain

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    Pemmer:

    Yes, I know. I was over generalizing. I should have re-worded that better. Sorry, my friend.

    I actually thought The Search Part's 1 & 2 wasn't that great. Also, Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast was a personal favorite of mine, but I don't feel it goes in fast and hard enough to grab a potential new viewer. Although, if I found out they were really enjoying the episodes (Emissary, and the Mirror Universe episodes) I might pop it in.


    Yeah, I would recommend your high lighted list if I knew they were sort of enjoying it. If I knew they loved it, I would make them watch the entire thing from beginning to end.
     
  16. Teiwaz

    Teiwaz Lieutenant Red Shirt

    I'm a little surpised nobody has mentioned 'Homefront' or 'Paradise Lost'.

    I've heard a lot about Nubsg being about the war on terror, but these DS9 episodes just capture the issues exactly. I'd recomend these to people who moan that SciFi is all fantasy and don't deal with real-world issues.
     
  17. Arix

    Arix Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I completely agree, and this is what I'd do - and have done in the past. DS9 just isn't a show where you could show them any episode to start with, even if it was as fantastic as The Visitor or In the Pale Moonlight. Without understanding who all the characters are, it just doesn't have the same impact.

    I've tried showing friends random episodes of DS9, as well as TNG and Voyager, but that method just can't convey why the series is so great. Even though its my favourite series, its also the hardest to get other people into for that very reason.

    Personally, I don't agree with this method at all. You summed it up yourself when you said, "the roles of the characters and their behavior wouldn't be as "shocking" if you didn't know Sisko or Garak or the war or any of that". And because of that, you can hardly fault them for thinking the episode is 'too complicated'! If it was the first episode I saw, I'd be confused!

    Without knowing who all the characters are, as well as the backstory, it just doesn't have the same impact! And remember, newcomers won't even be able to identify who all the characters are!

    That's also why I don't agree with introducing them in say, Season 3 or 4 - sure, the show started picking up there, but you're still missing out on information. You'd need to explain who the main characters are, who all the recurring characters are, what the premise is, you'd need to explain Bajor, Cardassia, the Wormhole/Prophets, and the Gamma Quadrant, and of course, the Dominion, and that's not even going into past episodes to explain the actions or references, etc.

    IF they really weren't getting into it, then I guess I would try to show them select episodes of season 1 - 2, but I still think thats better than jumping straight in.
     
  18. Navaros

    Navaros Commodore Commodore

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    I'd tell him or her to start with the Season 2 finale, "The Jem'Hadar", and just go chronologically from there.

    DS9 does have some great episodes before then, but they are few and far-between.

    Season 3 is when DS9 becomes solid on the whole (although DS9 has several bad episodes in every single one of its 7 seasons).

    Photon said it really well once, "The Jem'Hadar is when DS9 really starts cookin'."

    I don't agree with the idea to show ITPM - that indeed needs the build-up of knowing the stakes due to years worth of episodes.

    I don't agree that earlier episodes prior to "The Jem'Hadar" need to be shown for reference purposes. "The Jem'Hadar" demonstrates who the Dominion are very well, and the Bajoran politics that dominated Season 1-2 (thankfully!) get mostly flushed down the toilet for the rest of the series, hence knowing about them is unnecessary.
     
  19. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, there is absolutely nothing about Kai Winn, Vedek Bareil, Bajoran government, Bajoran religion, Bajoran history, former Bajoran caste system, or the issue of Bajor joining the Federation, after season 2. :rolleyes: We don't even know who Bajoran Prime Minister is... oh wait...
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  20. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "Duet" and "The Wire". Come on. You can't skip those episodes.... you just...