How much did Voyager know of the Dominion as of "Caretaker"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by t_smitts, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sometimes I wonder if Chakotay could even tie his shoelaces in the morning.

    In fact, he'd probably sit there looking at them... and then start telling a story, about how "My people say about Spirit Guides... that they guide us forward on the pathway of life... I need my shoes to walk that pathway, so it seems clear that my Spirit Guide will come and tie my shoelaces for me". And then he'd spend the rest of the day walking around with his shoelaces untied.

    (I know, I know... Starfleet shoes don't have laces. But let's not spoil the punch-line, hey? ;))
     
  2. t_smitts

    t_smitts Captain Captain

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    My assumption about that Maquis was there was no absolute "leader", but simply leaders of certain cells (Macias, Cal, Eddington). It makes a lot more sense to have a decentralized organization, when you've got two major powers hunting you.

    Whether Eddington was always working with the Maquis or simply decided to defect for whatever reason at some point, we can only speculate.

    There's absolutely no evidence Eddington attempted some sort of "alliance" with the Dominion. That seems rather far-fetched to me for a number of reasons.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Imagine the shit storm if the Romulans chose to recognize the Maquis?

    Made a big deal about finally finding human being "evolved" enough to have a conversation with.

    How likely is it that Dukat would make a secret alliance with the Dominion during his one man war on the Klingons? His one man war was nice, but just by acceding to a few concessions, his new allies promised to destroy all his enemies and give him the keys to the homeworld... "In theory".

    How was Dukat any more eminent than Eddington to make a deal with such scope?
     
  4. t_smitts

    t_smitts Captain Captain

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    Well, for starters, Dukat had (at least at one point) far more authority and influence within the Cardassian Union than Eddington did in the Federation.

    We never really learned the Cardassian governments's reaction to Dukat's private war. It's possible his exploits made him something of a hero among the public, which might have earned him some credibility when he promised the people that the Dominion would make them strong again.

    Regardless, however, I got the impression that at least some portion of the government was aware of the impending takeover, if only for the fact that there was absolutely no resistance whatsoever to what would've otherwise been seen as an invasion.

    My guess is Dukat was some sort of broker or mediator.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Cardassia at the time was being led by a Civilian Government for the first time in centuries.

    They had just been sacked by the Klingons, which didn't sit well with anyone.

    Maybe the civilian government wanted to give up, or maybe Dukat forced them out, but he had the military on his side and after the deal was finalized he was given not just Cardassia to Rule but the entire Alpha Quadrant to govern any way he chose once Dominion Victory had been acomplished.

    A broker is a middleman.

    Dukat was on top before he fell.
     
  6. Captain McBain

    Captain McBain Captain Captain

    Would Janeway have known that Picard and crew were shuttled to System J-25 in the Delta Quadrant, courtesy of Q? I cannot believe Voyager and the rest of the fleet wouldn't have known that.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    If you're asking whether they knew in advance that Borg territory was in the Delta Quadrant, there's no evidence that they didn't. Of course, saying that a territory is "in the Delta Quadrant" is tantamount to saying that a city is "in the Western Hemisphere" -- it doesn't really narrow it down that specifically. The DQ is vast and Voyager only carved a very narrow hairline through it, so even with the knowledge that the Borg were somewhere in the quadrant, they couldn't have known for a fact that their course would impinge upon Borg territory until it actually happened.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    J-25 was only 2 years away from Federation space. Q, merely took them to a cube, not Borg Space.

    Now if you want to talk about TNG Descent? That's where it starts to get sketchy about what determines Borg Space and where it is.
     
  9. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think they really knew anything until "Message in a Bottle" and really the one crew member that had issues with the Maquis being wiped out was B'ELanna.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then why were they training Kes to kill Dominion fighters?

    Remember that episode where Worf goes on holiday and all his hats are passed around to the rest of the command staff and Bashir moaning about all the secrets he's not allowed to talk about because he's the intelligence officer?

    I assume, on Voyager, that that position is Tuvoks.

    It's Tuvoks job to tell the Captain what she needs to know, and to save her the bother of retaining what she doesn't need to know.

    If you say too many words to Janeway she can't understand or agree with, she snaps. Sometimes it's a hissy fit, and sometimes she locks herself in her room for three months to rock back and forth, back and forth.

    Tuvok has seen it before and he'll see it again

    Vulcan bigotry however doesn't see Kathryn as unstable, it just views Janeway as typically and ordinarily unstable by the low standards they account all Human beings within.
     
  11. Leto_II

    Leto_II Captain Captain

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    In the DS9 episode "Q-Less," Sisko mentions that he'd attended Starfleet briefings on the Q entity some time prior to that story -- it's very likely (especially in the aftermath of Wolf 359) that the details surrounding the System J-25 incident would've been included in these sessions.
     
  12. Destructor

    Destructor Commodore Commodore

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    Agreed. Janeway did the thing that any normal person would do- set a course for home. Setting a course for the Bajoran wormhole (or start wandering randomly looking for other Caretaker survivors- if you wanted to find the Equinox [not that Janeway knew it was in the DQ at all] you'd do exactly what Janeway did- head towards Earth in a straight line) would have been absolute folly, given that she would have just been briefed for there was a hostile, technologically superior government right on top of it that had just demonstrated it's ability to wipe out Galaxy class starships (to say nothing of all the colonists they wiped out prior to 'The Jem'Hadar').

    This does not need to be shown onscreen to be assumed (likewise for Voyager receiving intelligence and information about the Dominion War- I'm sure it happened, it just didn't happen in a way that was germane to the stories we witnessed, so it wasn't shown onscreen. Y'know, like >99% of everything that happened onboard Voyager wasn't shown onscreen.

    However in 'Scorpion' there was a line where Chakotay says: "This could be it- Borg space." which basically implies that, logically, they knew the Borg were in or near the DQ, they knew that they were likely a major power to rival or exceed the Federation, so it stood to reason they might come across them sooner or later- and they were right.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Which is entirely consistent with my statement. "Couldn't have known for a fact" is not synonymous with "Did not even consider the possibility." It means they were aware of the possibility but didn't know for certain that it would happen until it did happen. Possibility and certainty are two different things.
     
  14. Destructor

    Destructor Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry, did I say 'However'? I meant 'Also'.