How Far Should TOS-R Have Gone?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by ZapBrannigan, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Besides the cleanup, nothing else. If CG was to be added it should be in the TOS style and not stand out.
     
  2. jayrath

    jayrath Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Agreed completely. I do not need "It's a Wonderful Life" colorized, I do not want dialogue added to Buster Keaton's "The General," and I certainly do not want blood added to TOS. For Pete's sake, have you not noticed that millions of Americans are deeply concerned over this country's culture of violence? Save blood for your video games, and please leave TOS out of it.
     
  3. Dick_Valentine

    Dick_Valentine Commander Red Shirt

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    Considering that they probably would have the Original un-touched episodes on the Blu-Ray sitting right next to the re-masters, they should've gone further. So should've TNG.

    I'm not a big fan of using the most high-tech modern computer imagery to recreate primitive 60s film-making.

    Even at the time some of the shots looked dodgy, I've never been a fan of the way the TOS Enterprise seems to list around with her Nacelles tilted forwards as if the Saucer was 50x heavier (and it was feeling that in the atmosphere) and some of the love of that ship's looks is pure Nostalgia and nothing else, it simply doesn't look great from every angle the way later ships were designed to.

    No, it would've been better to completely remaster it in the same way Doctor Who have done on their DVDs, (though they have the advantage in their episodes are completely lost so it's CGI or nothing in some case which placates the fan-base and even when they add CGI to existing episodes it's never seen as a replacement, just an optional enhancement )

    I guess the issue should be just in the marketing.
    It should've been made clear with the CBS remastering that the originals are still there to be enjoyed, but there are extra FX sequences for those who would like them.

    The whole attitude of "well I don't like them so they shouldn't do them" is blinkered in the extreme.

    Tonight on CBS Action here in the UK I watched the episode where Kirk loses his memory and marries a primitive woman while the Enterprise is left to attack an asteroid on course for the planet and the Asteroid part looked great on my HD TV, the final shot from the planet's defences could've been more dynamic though, perhaps even blowed the damn thing up.
     
  4. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, because that's what asteroid deflectors do.
     
  5. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    :) I like the comparison and feel it also applies here. Now some may say (and have said) that the original VFX made the ships look like bulky wooden vessels but in comparison the specularity of the new CGI shots (especially the Klingon Battlecruiser) makes the ships in TOS-R look like plastic and rather lightweight.

    The whole "bomb bay door" concept to unload the orbital satellites in "Operation: Annihilate" made the Enterprise look like a space plane while it's a starship. I prefer wood over plastic.

    Bob
     
  6. Dick_Valentine

    Dick_Valentine Commander Red Shirt

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    Well I think that was as close as they'd ever got so it should have emergency destroy settings too.

    Pushing them away are just Star Trek versions of the somebody else's problem machine "Yeah, we don't need this, lets litter the cosmos that bit more and send this one back out there..."
     
  7. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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  8. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

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    Agreed. Any splatter on the window would have been an almost imperceptibly fine mist.
     
  9. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    I was just picturing a little artistic licence, then. It's not like I was asking for a spine and two feet of intestines. Just a restrained, tasteful splash of blood. :) Yeah, it's probably a bad idea.
     
  10. Nero's Shadow

    Nero's Shadow Captain Captain

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    With or without it you still can't beat some of the TOS stories !!! I've got to admit I've always liked TOS with or without the TOS-R !!!
     
  11. Noname Given

    Noname Given Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Funny thing about the TOS-R version of that final shot -- In the episode itself Mirimani comment that the Medicine Man makes a 'blue flame' shoot out from the Obelisk -- and in the original version of the episode; it is a blue beam that shoots out.

    In the TOS-R version, the beam is red -- thus it looks like the CGI group didn't really watch the episode or refer to the script and someone just thought: "They used blue beams a lot -- lets make this red."
     
  12. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wanted to see Sulu and his millionaire stack of pennies...

    [​IMG]

    Everyone tried to be as patient as possible while Sulu physically demonstrated the penny doubling scenario.
     
  13. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Now the bored look on Dr. Piper's face really makes sense. :techman:
     
  14. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    The simple black box "Spock's Brain" was housed in could have been spruced up a little, they way they re-did Mr Norman's innards for "I, Mudd."

    A fancy electronic facia on the brain box might be cool, but a transparent box where you see the brain floating in a solution with bubbles rising through it might be wrong. That's Hammer Films territory.
     
  15. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Here's a judgement call:

    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x13hd/obsessionhd0444.jpg

    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x18hd/thelightsofzetarhd1386.jpg

    McCoy wore an engineering insignia on his short-sleeve uniform in "Obsession" and Scotty had a sciences insignia on his red shirt in "The Lights of Zetar." Should CBS have corrected them?

    These were accidents, not the intention of the producers.

    On the other hand, some of us might take a little joy in being able to spot things like this, and consider them part of the show's true fabric (in much the way that an imperfection in Spock's ears would be part of STAR TREK's actual make-up).

    And another one:

    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x20hd/returntotomorrowhd0549.jpg

    Should the incredibly beautiful Dr Ann Mulhall be put into a blue uniform with a sciences patch? It would right a technical wrong, but it wouldn't look as good! This is a conundrum. I suspect (help me out here) that her make-up and lighting may have been done with the red uniform in mind. So, take her out of that dress and what have you got?
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  16. DakotaSmith

    DakotaSmith Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I guess as a life-long TOS fan (I'm 48 and one of my first memories is of the Mugatu), I'm comfortable with what they did. My internal filter was the question:

    "If this technology had been available in 1966-69, is this a shot they would've used at that time?"

    Clearly, it's possible to go the other way. The noteworthy thing about ST2009 is its embracing of modern CGI.

    If they'd done that with TOS-R, I'd've disliked it. It's fine for the new incarnation to be more visual and more fluid with its effects. It would totally violate anything like the spirit of the original.

    This rather touches on an aspect of things, which is how standards have changed:

    When TOS aired, it was an action-adventure show in a sci-fi context. And it really was an action show. Kirk getting into a fist-fight as shown on the show was legitimately thrilling to audiences of the day.

    ST2009 is an action-adventure movie in a sci-fi context. For the modern era, it really is an action movie. Kirk getting into a fist-fight as shown in the movie is legitimately thrilling to audiences today.

    TOS-R could have chosen to go the ST2009 route and make the new shots visually exciting by modern standards. They didn't, and for me it works.

    Dakota Smith
     
  17. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's exactly what I was thinking--thanks for noticing. :bolian:

    While notable mistakes for the Trek fanatic, it's a wash for the majority of people. I wouldn't have noticed those mistakes, not now, not ever. I don't look for such things with a fine tooth comb. I guess it's tempting to do this with blu-ray revealing so much more detail, but when you watch an episode so many times that you practically know the dialog, you then can wander off and stare at the surroundings of each shot for all it reveals. You are going to find mistakes like this in ANY TV series where a certain degree of consistency is supposed to be shown (like the insignia of uniforms, whether they be modern day police or futuristic soldiers). Trying to fix it all would not be cost productive. I wouldn't expect it to have been done, nor frown upon the TOS-R producers for having left in those mistakes.

    What bugs me is when they change things that previously worked and make them wrong, like the blue laser shooting out of the obelisk in "The Paradise Syndrome" being changed to red... as someone else pointed out, making it look like someone tried to be creative at the expense of accuracy.
     
  18. Navigator_NCC2120

    Navigator_NCC2120 Captain Captain

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    The mistakes are not just restricted to TV series. For example, near the end of TMP, Spock and McCoy are wearing each others field jackets. McCoy's field jacket has the green stripe (for medical division [or science division, medical branch, if you prefer]) and Spock's field jacket has the orange stripe (for science division).

    Here is the mistake courtesy of trekcore.

    Here is a link to information about the Starfleet Uniforms from TMP courtesy of Memory-Alpha.


    Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
    /\
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  19. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Were those insignia "mistakes" in TOS really mistakes? I mean, were they ever identified as to mean a specific department in the series or is this something we've retroactively applied to them?
     
  20. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    If McCoy always wears the little globe-y one and in one shot has the Fibonacci-spiral one, yup, that's a mistake. Same for Scotty with my (er, I mean his) beloved Mira.

    But what a great picture of DeForest Kelley!

    And Ann Mulhall could have a doctorate in an engineering field, right? Or does the script contradict that? I think someone on the bbs postulated that as an explanation for her in her fetching red outfit, nom nom.

    To answer the question, yes, if you're (CBS) going to add all sorts of cartoon-Enterprise shots and planet scenes, change a couple of patches somehow. My opinion. I don't care about cost, since it's not my money and they've made gazillions off us through Trek.