How do Niners feel about TNG?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by TheGodBen, May 18, 2010.


How do you feel about TNG?

  1. I love TNG, both it and DS9 are excellent

    66 vote(s)
  2. I like TNG, but I prefer DS9

    59 vote(s)
  3. TNG was okay, I have no strong feelings

    13 vote(s)
  4. I disliked TNG, DS9 was the superior show

    4 vote(s)
  5. I loath TNG, it ruined everything

    2 vote(s)
  6. I'm not a Niner but I want to vote for the comic option

    5 vote(s)
  1. Tulaberry whine

    Tulaberry whine Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    May 2, 2008
    I find B5 very much of its time. It's particularly evident in the dated visual effects and the (very) cheap looking sets of the show - but the often melodramatic dialogue and the at times hammy characterisations and performances are just as problematic IMHO.

    I also feel that after an amazing build up the narrative on the show played out in a rather formulaic fashion, with some particularly galling pat resolutions (‘Now get the hell out of our galaxy!’).

    These issues, coupled with a slide in quality that began in its fourth season (which almost became terminal during parts of its fifth season), mean I tend to find B5 does not stand up to scrutiny or multiple repeat viewings like other genre shows of the time (eg, X-Files, DS9, TNG, Farscape, Buffy (and yes, I know all these shows have their own weaknesses)).
  2. Kira Nerys

    Kira Nerys Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Feb 9, 2006
    Love em both
  3. Kathryn-janeway

    Kathryn-janeway Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Nov 22, 2009
    Got to admit, i never watched TNG that much only a couple of times on re runs. I prefer DS9 and Voy the most. Then again i did enjoy some of the movies with the TNG cast. Its just not my cup of tea :D
  4. Apogeal Alpha01

    Apogeal Alpha01 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Dec 9, 2004
    I still watch the occasional TNG episode, and Voyager for that matter, and like it. But I had the thought this evening of whipping out the DS9 shows and watching the series again. I miss the family.
  5. Praxius

    Praxius Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Nov 9, 2009
    Melbourne, AUS
    Capitalism is the reason why those things you agreed with above have been allowed to expand and run rampant with little oversight for so long.


    Perhaps, but I personally believe that if Capitalism never existed in the first place, we'd be much further in our "Comfort" then we are today.

    Don't forget that many civilizations and cultures thrived and flourished long before Capitalism ever existed. What capitalism does is progress humanity and civilization further through feeding the individual's own personal greed over another..... it separates humanity into personal gain rather then collective gain. It's like making every individual ant in a colony strive to be the queen ant and thus act like the queen ant, even if it's at the expense of all the other ants.

    Now I'm not for dictating or issuing individuals to be assigned certain jobs or ways of life based on one leader's/dictator's view like ants, as I'm against that as well. I'm just using that as an example of how such a way of life of personal greed can disrupt and corrupt the overall collective of a civilization.

    Capitalism allows places like the US to charge their citizens for basic needs of living like medical coverage, where if you don't have the money, you can't get the surgery you need to stay alive...... it allows corrupt insurance agencies to make up the rules as they go and deny those who paid them coverage by claiming something is "Experimental." It allows whoever has the most money or the higher position in society to jump in front of others for their own needs, which can be less serious as those waiting in line simply because they can't afford it.

    Capitalism has allowed people Like Bush, Nixon and Regan to be bribed and allow big oil companies to get away with expensive regulations and safety procedures (See the current oil spill) allowed cop out health programs that have left so many people without decent medical coverage to the point where they have to choose between life saving treatments or their homes..... usually ending up as burdens on the rest of their family to help pay for treatments.

    Look at many of the above things you agreed with me on, like corrupt governments, wars, religious hatred, etc. and you will see many areas where Capitalism had its dirty hands involved in one way or another.

    The current child molestation issues in the Christian church, mainly the Roman Catholic church...... for so many years now, the church has kept their victims quiet by issuing out backdoor settlements for various sums of money, in order to avoid justice...... look at many of the big companies that have caused harm or death to so many through faulty products or practices, that ended up never going to jail or having their companies shut down, because of settlements and pay outs to keep victims quiet.

    Settlements in the Court is just another fancy word for Bribes to Avoid Legal Prosecution and undermine the core elements of Justice and Law.

    There's also a very good quote from Fight Club:
    "A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

    Protection of the consumer/customer/citizen for these companies is primarily based on the cost to the company.... it is very rarely ever about what is generally the right thing to do, it's about how much money they can save, which in many cases, "how much money they can save" is also the primary reason why their products fail and cause harm to the public in the first place.

    Looking for the cheaper way to design something..... making companies in China/Japan to manufacture their products because they pay their employees far less then what they can live off of while making them work even longer hours..... which they end up using inferior materials or illegal materials already proven to harm humans (Lead in toys/chemicals in milk products to simulate a better product for cheaper/shoddy gas peddles that cause vehicles to speed up out of control and crash)

    Capitalism has given us the comfortable world we live in today?

    IMO, it has set humanity back for far too long and more people are beginning to realize this...... Nobody tries to make the best product of the best quality and of the best safety anymore, because it's far more easier to make the newest, trendiest product using the cheapest material, with the cheapest manufacturing, with the workers who will work for the cheapest pay and for the longest hours, because they have no other opportunities available to them..... and charging an arm and a leg for that product in the process..... all for personal Profit and Greed.

    Nobody tries to provide the best service and the best coverage, simply because of the fact that some other company will provide a cheaper service for what seems to be more coverage (minus the fine print of pre-existing conditions that may later disqualify your coverage) thus running them out of business, even if their competition is far more inferior and riskier.... it's all about how much you can gain for yourself while paying as little as possible..... in order to gain as much as possible for yourself.

    And the vicious cycle continues on and on.... the Rich get richer and the poor get poorer..... the poor are prosecuted, while the rich walk away.

    Simply put, Nothing lasts forever.

    Capitalism spread around the world and held onto its position in our societies much like how Christianity spread around the world over the centuries.... through force, fearmongering and oppression.

    Nobody is willing to seek any other alternative method of living because people have become too accustomed to the way we live today.... we've been told for so long that this is the best way to live and we've grown afraid of anything different.

    And who's been telling us all this?

    Those who are currently rich and hold the power...... so of course it's perfectly fine for them.... the very select few of humanity.

    But what about humanity as a whole? What about giving every single person on this planet the equal right and equal chance to live equal lives, to equally choose to do with their lives as they see fit without restrictions based on your financial status in society? Upper Class, Middle Class, Lower Class, etc.?

    Hard to get up in class, but a lot easier to fall down out of a class. You spend 50+ some years continually working at a job, usually one you either don't like or never wanted to do in the first place, just to pay off your bills, your expenses, taxes to the government, car, cable, telephone, medical, food, etc. etc. etc.... just to get by..... then and usually only then when you retire at the age of 65 or older, will you possibly have the slight chance of being able to do with your life what you always wanted to do as a child..... so long as your retirement plan doesn't cop out for one reason or another or life expenses suddenly increase to the point you now have to spend the remainder of your retirement paying more just to continue to get by.....

    .... Then you die and your children continue the cycle.... and their children.... and so on.

    And the funny thing is that your fire department, your police, your military that all protect you, etc. are all forms of socialism which you accept as necessary every day of your life..... which for the most part, do a pretty good job in protecting you, your family & property..... It's these forms of "Socialism" that allow our Democracies and even Capitalism to exist in the first place.... if it wasn't for these forms of Socialism, you'd be stuck having to have fire departments stand by to watch your house burn until you can prove you can pay them, you'd be stuck having to pay police every few weeks to ensure they protect your neighborhood or even just your house/yourself.... I'm not even sure how the Military would even exist without socialism and taking your tax money..... you'd have Mercs working in isolated cells, which a nation using a socialized military would roll over with little effort.

    Tell me.... who pays for all that technology and equipment your military uses? How does your military continue to exist?

    Yet when it comes to the other aspects of making sure you and your "society" thrive and flourish with little interruption from greedy and selfish people, like the need for medical coverage, hospitals, housing, food, water, etc.... anything that removes your individual and subjective high spending of those things and possibly makes you spend a far less amount via "Taxes".... suddenly it's evil socialism and the evil Commies are out to get you and send you off to some fascist concentration camp... Booga booga. (Even though Capitalism has nothing to do with Democracy, Socialism, Communism or any other governmental system)

    And even mentioning the idea of removing Capitalism altogether, seems to cause many, especially in the US, to chat-noir their pants and cry the end of the world and total death and destruction..... yet again, even though for thousands of years before Capitalism existed, humanity and societies existed and thrived for other means then personal greed.

    But this is just my opinion of course.

    I have heard many over the years complain and finger point at Canada over our health care system (Which the UK, many EU nations and many other nations around the world all have some form of similar health coverage) and point at it being bad, possibly failing in the future, costing too much.... yet why do all of these countries still use socialized health care and other socialized systems in our democracies if they were so bad?

    Why is the US one of the only few developed nations without this type of health system? Why does the US have a much lower life expectancy then say Canada?

    I have heard many in the US claim they'd never want to live in Canada because of our "Socialism" ways..... but in turn, I would never.... ever, wish to live in the US and risk my own quality of life in a nation that seems to protect Capitalism over Democracy and Equality of Life above all else.

    Each system has their pros and each system has their cons..... and whenever one system is allowed to take over without any oversight or protection of the citizen, that is when we all truly see just how bad those cons can really be.

    Global Financial Meltdown, BP's Continuing Oil Spill, the invasions of two sovereign nations over botched information to cover the attempt to gain further profit over natural gas pipelines and oil reserves, the "War on Drugs", the "War on Terrorism" (Two Wars which try and fight an ideology and substances that are a part of this Earth that are impossible to extinguish through military might) the continued mass scale experimentation on our societies from the pharmaceutical companies who now basically tell us everything under the sun is a disease and they have one pill or another to cure it or mask it while we ignore the additional serious side effects these pills give us, which they have more pills to mask or counter, and so on..... whom pharmaceutical companies continually fight the legalization and research on Marijuana for the simple fact that this easily made and cheap plant from Earth would make them lose billions upon billions of dollars every year........

    ..... It's all for profit, power and greed..... to hell with the general population. The general population is just to be used to step on to get higher up in society and if a few citizens suffer and/or die in the process, well then that's just more money not being spread around and can come to you.

    Remember, Capitalism is not about bettering Humanity..... it's about bettering You (If you're lucky)

    But to each their own. ;)
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  6. RXTT

    RXTT Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Mar 25, 2013
    Gamma Quadrant
    I grew up watching ToS in re-runs, and loved it. I watched TNG from the first episode, and loved it. I was thrilled that Trek was back on TV, since I had been loving all the movies until that day.

    I am a NINER 4 LIFE though. Once I watched DS9 I realized that this was the best TV I was going to ever get to see.

    I still love TNG, and Picard, and everyone on it. I never felt any malice towards "weasel" crusher. When I met my wife we got into TNG, watching it in reruns, because she had never seen TRek, and I thought she may find Picard a bad-ass (which he is and she did). She liked TNG a lot, especially data and Picard. She hated Barclay, HATED HIM, and refuses to watch any Barclay-based episodes.

    I told her my fave was DS9, and tried to explain why, but it is easier to show. The problem was that DS9 is not in syndication, and was unavailable for us to watch.

    Once I found out it was on Netflix streaming we got down to business. It quickly became my wife's fave. It was always my fave.

    The best parts of TNG were when we got to see the real people behind the official titles. TNG did not have enough of these moments, but I think it is why people loved when Picard finally joined the crew to play poker.

    TNG is about what happens when you gather the best of the best and send them to explore new worlds. Everyone on the enterprise WANTS to be there, asks to be there, works hard to earn the right to be there. It is a ship full of overachievers.

    DS9 was about what happens to people when they are forced to deal with horrific situations they had no hand in creating, in a remote, lawless part of their world. DS9 is a place full of outcasts, misfits, fringe-dwellers, and malcontents. These are people that have been ordered or forced to do jobs they would rather not be doing. This was obvious from the first episode. Even the almighty SISKO did not want to be the Emissary. This is a whole lot close to the realities that we all have to deal with in our lives. It also showed that "evil" is a category found in all people, and that the "good" among us are the ones that CHOOSE to do right.

    DS9 is the single greatest TV show for me. It explored the true nature of what it is to be human.
  7. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jul 6, 2011
    DS9 and TNG are very different shows. But I like them because they are unique. TNG has some great episodes that are layered and deal with an issue in each one. DS9 is one theme and peels the layers of that theme. I think it's great that we had the writing talent to do both series with the same staffs.
  8. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

    Apr 4, 2013
    The Denorios Belt
    I love both of them, but I do slightly prefer DS9 and believe it to be the best Trek.

    That being said, DS9 had the benefit of taking place in a universe that was built on two previous series. You can't forget that without TNG, there would be no DS9. As a series, it was able to hit the ground running without (too much of) an awkward phase, because TNG laid a path for it.

    (TNG also laid a path for Voyager, but instead of exploring off the path, Voyager chose to wear it into a rut.)
  9. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jul 6, 2011
    I think that's important to recognize. You have to know the 24th century to appreciate what's at-stake in the Dominion War and how we are waging it. It's almost heartbreaking to see some of the moral dilemmas of the show.

    I don't have a favorite. I don't watch VOY and ENT, but I would take the first three series, any episode, any time. They are so good.
  10. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 15, 2012
    Well I voted for I love both, but I do prefer DS9 to TNG.

    TNG definitely has the better actors, but DS9 got graced with better writers so they had better characters in the end.
  11. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Captain Captain

    Jan 7, 2013
    I grew up with TNG but I prefer DS9
  12. Sela301

    Sela301 Admiral Premium Member

    Mar 2, 2003
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    Was it better writers or more free writers? The more I watch the Blu Rays for TNG, the more I think how egomaniacal Gene Roddenberry was and I wonder if Gene was completely hands off, how much better TNG would have been.
  13. NKemp3

    NKemp3 Commodore Commodore

    Feb 28, 2000
    No offense...but ::bleep:: this. I am old enough to remember DS9 being DISMISSED by TOS and especially TNG fans during its run. In letters to Trek magazines. In interviews from newspaper articles. On forums during the earliest days of the internet. Even by many who wrote fawningly over TNG in the media while being brutal towards TNG (especially one particular reviewer for USA Today who later moved over to TV Guide....maybe that was Matt Roush). Deep Space Nine took a beating from Trek fandom. Even VOY was greeted initially with open arms from the rest of Trek fans because it followed the Trek formula and wasn't repeating Deep Space Nine's "mistakes". DS9 fans had to live with the fact that Paramount seemed perfectly willing to ignore it compared to its shipbound Trek shows. I cannot come close to conveying how bad it was for DS9 and how much crap it had to take from Trek fans in general, especially during its first four to five years. DS9 fans had to develop some tough skin. So when I read remarks without any context that Niners have some sort of superior attitude it makes me want to throw up.

    With that said as a Niner myself I love TNG. TNG got things going again and I have fond memories of it even if it doesn't hold up all that well in some regards. It comes in third just behind DS9 and B5 and ahead of TOS, SGU and Space Above and Beyond.
  14. NKemp3

    NKemp3 Commodore Commodore

    Feb 28, 2000
    IMO TNG doesn't even have that. From top to bottm DS9's ensemble of performers is stronger. Even if I conceded that Stewart was the top performer overall, I still think DS9 could have seven of the top ten performers if we were compliling and rating actors from both shows at once. And that only includes the regular staff. If we tossed in recurring actors for DS9 (such as those who played Garak, Dukat, Martok, etc) and how big of a part they played in the DS9 tapestry, it becomes even more of a slaughter.
  15. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Jul 6, 2011
    I remember those days. I was one of those fans...for the first season. And I remember everyone telling us that it wasn't Star Trek. That it lacked any moral center. That it was no TNG. That they didn't like the dark tone. That it didn't have good sets. I caught episodes every once in awhile from 2-3 seasons. By the time the 4th rolled around, it was must-see, tape-every-episode television.
  16. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Oct 3, 2007
    I remember a letter from a reader published in the UK Star Trek magazine in which they basically condemned the magazine for devoting an issue to the end of DS9. The individual ended the letter with the threat of not buying the magazine again and predicting the magazine would go out of business if they did the same again. I thought it was insane. They didn't specify if they were a TOS, TNG fan or a VOY fan, although I would wager they they were a Voyager "fan"; since DS9 and VOY were competitors at the time.

    Star Trek really does not need "fans" like that.
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 15, 2012
    Well Gene pretty much handed the reigns over to Berman by season 2. Season 3 and up is when TNG started getting better. But as great as their episodes were, there weren't many continual story arcs.
  18. DarKush

    DarKush Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Nov 18, 2005
    Up until the Dominion War started I liked TNG better than DS9. After that, I was sold on DS9. The change had probably actually started happening with the introduction of the Jem'Hadar but it was the full blown war that locked DS9 in for me for good and it's now my favorite Trek series.

    TNG is still my second favorite series. And despite the fact that I didn't like Roddenberry's perfect humans stuff and DS9's take on characters was more up my alley, the TNG crew remain my favorite crew. I do think that DS9 did a much better job handling an ensemble cast though.
  19. Jazz

    Jazz Ensign Newbie

    May 18, 2013
    I didn't grow up watching Star Trek so to say, I started watching Voyager at the end of its run and in re-runs late at night, and didn't delve deep into the Trek universe until the last film came out so I'm sort of a new fan, but with two, maybe three exceptions I've seen every episode of TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT, and without a doubt, DS9 is the best.

    That being said, and I think this has already been touched on but DS9 would not have been what it is without its predecessors. What makes DS9 so special is the way the show is set up to explore the Trek universe, and the writers weren't afraid to explore the dark aspects. They took the building blocks of the Federation we got to know and turned it on its head. Without the other series you don't fully understand the world that is being explored. I also feel that out of all the series, it's the one most relevant to the issues we faced/face in the 20th/21st centuries, and for the most part they approached them well.

    Each of the series has their faults and we all know there are at least a dozen of terrible episodes (Masks anyone?) but as a whole the Star Trek television series are done better than the average show that airs on television right now. So I voted that "TNG is ok and I have no strong feelings", although I am re-watching the series on Netflix right now and am quite enjoying myself.

    The nail in the coffin for me is that Gul Dukat has to be the best villain to have ever graced television screens.
  20. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

    May 19, 2013
    In a finely-crafted cosmos... of my own making.
    I grew up on TOS and TAS, and learned much of my English via captain Picard. :) But DS9 remains my favourite Trek series because of its developed characters and storylines. It's more complex and compelling to me.

    And then they made Voyager. :(