• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

HOW did Edith delay WWII?

trekkist

Lieutenant Commander
Red Shirt
Spock: "Here, in the late 1930s. A growing pacifist movement whose influence delayed the United States' entry into the Second World War. While peace negotiations dragged on, Germany had time to complete its heavy-water experiments...all this lets them develop the A-bomb first...Let me run it again. Edith Keeler. Founder of the peace movement...With the A-bomb, and with their V-2 rockets to carry them, Germany captured the world."

Headline of Feb. 23 1936 has FDR meeting with Edith the "slum angel." Other than these few "facts," we've nothing to go on. But Edith's very success in ANY timeline begs the question: exactly what sort of "peace movement" could possibly delay the US going to war subsequent to Pearl Harbor?

Contemporary political extremists might posit some radically cowardly political bent on the part of the US populace/gov't, but this seems to me farfetched. More reasonable, it seems to me, is that in the unchanged Trek timeline, the attack on Pearl did not in fact occur.

Though IJN vessel names appear in TNG, the sole reference to Pearl itself is (per Memory Alpha & the transcript of TNG's "The Enemy" at www.chatkoteya.net/NextGen/155.htm) the line, "But we must measure our response carefully, or history may remember Galorndon Core along with Pearl Harbor and Station Salem One as the stage for a bloody preamble to war."

From 1928 to 1935, the US Navy pursued a short-lived experiment in long-range scouting airships. Both the Akron and Macon were lost, and the program discontinued.

Say this had not been the case, and that the Japanese fleet had been discovered and intercepted at some considerable distance from Pearl. Coupled with Edith's peace movement -- and perhaps Japanese allegations of the action having been only an "exercise" -- such might have prevented FDR from gaining support, circa 1941, for America's entry into the war.

Absent Edith (given she "died as she was meant to"), a debate of (say) some months might result in the US going to war sometime early in 1942, with little further change to actual history (save for, perhaps, some skirmishes with "Luftwaffe 1946" type aircraft in the war's final year.
 
Or maybe her influence directly or indirectly caused the U.S. not to enforce the series of trade restrictions against Japan that left them desperate enough to think that the Pearl Harbor attack was a good idea.
 
The Japanese attacked because of an oil embargo.

If America had not stopped selling the Empire oil, the Axis wouldn't have opened a new front on US Interests, and America would have been peaceable till after Germany won the war.

Dropping the embargo for financial reasons will increase jobs and foreign investment and help America out of the depression a little more.

Anticipating a military response to an economic lever, might make FDR consider taking his hand off that lever.
 
Dude that's cheating.

You're also cockblocking.

By regurgitating shite from that thread, we seem smarter this time than last time.

There's no definitive thread here.

It's Groundhog Day.

We keep having the same conversations over and over again until we get it right.

Some of us prove that we can learn.

Others prove that they can't.
 
In the McCoy Crucible novel, which alternates between the two timelines in COTEOF, Japan does not attack Pearl Harbor on December 7th 1941, a direct consequence of Edith's work in the American pacifist movement. By the time America enters the war, it is too late, and you all know the rest.
 
In 1936, an election year, there was already an isolationist movement which Edith tapped into with the help of some 23rd century psychology advice...:lol:
 
There's this thing.

America invaded and annexed Hawaii.

Maybe Edith convinced FDR to relinquish the (not yet) 50th state to the hands of it's indigenous people sick of being oppressed by distant foreign overlords?
 
The point is, Hawaii became part of the U.S. because of a domestic revolution conducted by American businessmen already living there.

It was not an invasion and occupation directed from Washington. So whatever one's grievances against the US government might be, they are not the evil party here; if not for those businesspeople conducting a coup on their own, the US would not have interfered.
 
Last edited:
How Hawaii became a US State and How Hawaii became a US Territory 60 years earlier are slightly different stories.

Hawaii was "controlled" by British assholes for 5 years after a coup, when the unseated Queen of Hawaii requested American military aid to restore her country. American occupation was more favourable than British occupation, but the Monarchy was not restored, and the American warships welcomed as liberators, never left.

The US are not the bad guys, but it's a little shady.
 
Regardless of how Hawaii was obtained, the idea that a social worker could have talked FDR into giving up the U.S.'s fleet headquarters is preposterous.
 
The point is, Hawaii became part of the U.S. because of a domestic revolution conducted by American businessmen already living there.

It was not an invasion and occupation directed from Washington. So whatever one's grievances against the US government might be, they are not the evil party here; if not for those businesspeople conducting a coup on their own, the US would not have interfered.
that does still sound like a slo-mo invasion to me. doesn't matter if it was conducted by Washington, one way or another the forces of the US took over Hawaii. I have no problem with that, I'm glad it happened, but it is still a takeover by the US.
 
^ No, it isn't. The US government didn't WANT to take over Hawaii. You can't blame them for that. It was all the fault of those businesspeople who took it upon themselves to take over. That's not the government's fault.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top