How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federation?

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Brainsucker, Dec 2, 2012.

  1. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    While the Federation is advanced to a certain degree, they obviously are not as advanced as you seem to be assuming they are.

    Face it Deks, there are limits to their technology.

    Synthesize mean combining a number of things into a single whole. Deuterium is a single atom to start with.

    0.0156% of all hydrogen is deuterium. You have to go though over 6.4 thousand litres of naturally occurring hydrogen to separate out 1 litre of pure deuterium.

    The Galamites might possess a indusrtial process to produce duranium that the Federation completely lacks, or it's less expensive than the Federation's method. So the Galamites produce it, ship it across interstellar space, and sell it to the Federation.

    Given the relative size difference between the Voyager and the Delta Flyer, and the proven utility of the Flyer, have you concidered the possibility that they simply stripped a few tonnes of duranium out of the Voyager's own hull?

    :)
     
  2. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    Limits yes, but not of THAT kind of variety.
    Or are you also forgetting how writers in Trek were notorious of creating ludicrous technology and resources in one episode (which was established as possible with the knowledge/technology at the Federation disposal) only to be forgotten in another for the purpose of 'drama'?

    And how many litres of Deuterium is actually needed to run a ship?
    Is 'pure' Deuterium also required, or is it also diluted to large levels?
    The Federation would likely have other sources of matter from which Deuterium could be synthesized in abundance - and also, they WOULD be aiming for sustainability and maximum efficiency... which means, least amount of energy and resource expenditure.
    Time might be a factor if they are in a hurry which would prompt finding naturally formed deuterium, but otherwise, I see no reason why time-consuming processes wouldn't be used for creating the synthetic variant - and we don't know if the Federation predominantly uses synthetic or natural deuterium.

    Does not make sense.
    Federation ships were in service for a LONG time, and even in the era of NX-01, Duranium was the choice of materials for ships hulls.
    I find it utterly idiotic that the only source of this material or methods of production is available to the Galamites, because SF had been in existence for 200 years, and have been using the said material for as long.

    Realistically, they would have to be pretty stupid to not be able to make a synthetic version of their own with identical if not FAR superior properties using the least amount of energy and materials in the process - after 200 years no less.

    I find it very unlikely the crew would use Voyager's own hull for that.
    A Federation ship such as Voyager (or even a tiny Nova class) has the necessary tools/technology to be fully self-sufficient indefinitely and would likely be able to create the necessary materials they depend on given enough time.
    Artificially imposed limitation from the writers is a well known 'drama factor'.
     
  3. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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  4. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    Or the Federation might be consuming Duranium faster then they can replicate / produce given wartime energy levels.

    Ergo getting a outside source is very beneficial to keeping manufacturing / repairs at full capacity.
     
  5. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    They'd probably just replicate the duranium or process it from a natural ore site.

    There's no sense in taking it from your own ship that needs it.
     
  6. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    One common bad point in "Star Trek" writers is that they have a tendency to make Starfleet / UFP look incompetant by having technological failures, dumb rules, or incompetant people to create artificial drama.

    Babylon 5, many Sci-Fi animes don't have their writers depend on these tropes.

    It's the one part about Trek Writers that I hope to abolish if they ever create more TV series in the future.

    There are many ways to create drama, using those stock tropes only make the protagonists look worse then they really should be is just bad writing.
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    ...And giving the Jem'Hadar another target to aim at, easing the burden on primary duranium facilities in the UFP. :devil:

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. KamenRiderBlade

    KamenRiderBlade Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    That's a different way of looking at it.
     
  9. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    In a complimentary capacity to avoid possible shortages during wartime... yes.
    But not as a primary source.
     
  10. Brainsucker

    Brainsucker Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    wait, according Memory Alpha, Replicator is :

    A replicator was a device that used transporter technology to dematerialize quantities of matter and then rematerialize that matter in another form. It was also capable of inverting its function, thus disposing of leftovers and dishes and storing the bulk material again. (TNG: "Lonely Among Us"; DS9: "Hard Time", "The Ascent"; VOY: "Year of Hell", "Memorial")

    So..., don't tell me again that replicator use only deuterium to magically produce anything. Or... Memory Alpha is actually false?
     
  11. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    Memory Alpha is NOT a canon source of information.
    Per the actual on-screen data:
    "Replicators convert energy into matter" - matter was never mentioned.
     
  12. brian577

    brian577 Captain Captain

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    Consisdering Voyager's bad writing, specifically that they were able to construct the ship at all with their supposedly limited resources, I'll take DS9's writing over there's.
     
  13. Deks

    Deks Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    I wouldn't, seeing how DS9 often times dumbed everything down and made characters look like morons who are LESS advanced than WE are (and the Dominion War - not to mention the Founders, were a complete joke).
    At least in Voyager, even though it wasn't completely explained, construction of the Delta Flyer was mostly in line with the technology at their disposal and level of thinking the characters should have employed throughout the show.
     
  14. Brainsucker

    Brainsucker Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    The problem Deks, Memory Alpha could give some "episodes Reference". So what about you? Where is that statement come?

    I agree with you.
     
  15. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    What episode were you referring too"

    :)
     
  16. Brainsucker

    Brainsucker Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    replicator was a device that used transporter technology to dematerialize quantities of matter and then rematerialize that matter in another form. It was also capable of inverting its function, thus disposing of leftovers and dishes and storing the bulk material again. (TNG: "Lonely Among Us"; DS9: "Hard Time", "The Ascent"; VOY: "Year of Hell", "Memorial")

    I copy this from Memory Alpha. Look at the last one. They give us the episodes reference. Look at that, The three series. TNG, DS9 and VOY.
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    Usually, such references are completely erroneous or subject to interpretation. One would have to go to each episode to see what is said or shown.

    In this particular case, let's see what each episode has to say.

    "Lonely Among Us": The word "replicator" is never even used. The tidbit being referred to is apparently this phrase: "You've seen something as fresh and tasty as meat, but inorganically materialised out of patterns used by our transporters." This neither supports or contradicts either of the models of replication: matter out of energy, or matter out of other matter.

    "Hard Time": All we get wrt the replicator is that one puts the dishes back into it after eating. We saw such things in "Cardassians" already; why this particular episode is picked as a reference is unknown. Again, no real support or objection to the first claim made in the article. Only the second claim about recycling is supported.

    "The Ascent": Again a reference to putting dishes back into the machine, only relevant to the second claim.

    "Year of Hell": No idea what MA wants to reference here, as the replicators go offline for most of the episode.

    "Memorial": Another reference to putting dishes back into the replicator.

    So basically all that these supposed references give us is that dishes should be put back into the machine or mommy gets angry. We don't even learn what happens to the dishes when the button is pressed. Are they really recycled, or merely destroyed for convenience?

    The first claim made in the entry is baseless in light of these particular references.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    double post
     
  19. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    Please pardon the misunderstanding Brainsucker. I meant what episode was Deks referring too when he said ...

    Per the actual on-screen data: "Replicators convert energy into matter"


    I'm not sure where Deks obtained this quote.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2012
  20. Brainsucker

    Brainsucker Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: How could the Dominion War doesn't effect the economy of Federatio

    Ah I'm sorry too for the miss understanding

    Well I don't know. Maybe there is no official info about this replicator in STar Trek