How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Delta Vega, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Wasn't there a transporter room on deck 7 same as the medical section?
    Of course it gets more complicated when you need a stretcher upon a shuttlecraft's arrival. Either there is also a medical section in the engineering hull or you have to use the ship's internal stairways (maybe with the help of some antigrav units). Intraship beaming is obviously out of the question.

    Bob
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Apparently, stretcher patients aren't the only bulky thing being moved around the ship:

    http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmp2/tmphd0430.jpg

    ^This cute hovercart would easily fit inside a turbolift...

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Anti-grav_sled

    ^While this one would not.

    Perhaps there exists an alternate transporting system for long, low items such as these pallets. Say, the corridors in TOS are very high, with lots of empty space atop the heads of our characters. There might be futuristic invisible trunkage up there: not just dataways or magic power flows, but a gravitic tube-mail sans the tube... Doesn't explain the arrangements of the TOS movies or the TNG era, though.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If the stretcher had it's own built in artificial gravity, you could just stand it up on end in the turbolift, and the patient wouldn't know the difference.

    :devil:
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Elegant.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    The overhead space of the TOS ship's coridors has many hurdles in the way.
    Besides, I think what we're actually looking at is a holographic illusion that creates psychological space that actually isn't there (holograhic technology was already a concept for TOS that didn't make it until TAS' "holodeck").

    I know it's a rather unorthodox but inevitable idea if you want to confine these corridors / deck height plausibly within the given space of the Enterprise, IMHO.
    (A pet theory of mine is that Kirk is actually explaining this to Ambassador Sarek as he takes him to Engineering in "Journey to Babel". I would find it hard to believe he's just saying "notice our efficient GNDNs overhead" :p).

    I also think that both the running around in "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" and ST II clearly indicate that all decks are physically connected by stairways to one another if the tubo lift system is inoperate. And you'd need to have such a traditional system if you need to bring bulky equipment from the freight storage below in the engineering hull to the upper saucer section.

    Bob
     
  6. sbk1234

    sbk1234 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Turbolifts designed by Tardis.
     
  7. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Interesting that TOS turbolifts don't seem to be able to accommodate a pt stretcher for transport to sickbay. And TOS didn't have a "beam directly to sickbay" option.

    I'll look for real world answers. Onboard naval vessels today, how do they transport pts on stretchers between decks? Physically hoist them thru the gangways and hatches?
     
  8. sbk1234

    sbk1234 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I suppose there could have been special "medical turbolifts", dedicated only for medical emergencies. Appropriate size, etc. for fitting a stretcher.

    Was there ever an episode in TOS where we would have needed to see one?
     
  9. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    All the (limited) canon evidence (and mostly, if not all, from the movies and other shows) suggests that the tubes won't accommodate a car larger than the one that was used. I think T'Girl's anti-grav stretcher is a fine idea.
     
  10. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I feel the urge to ask a question:

    Why is it we all assume the turbolifts can only travel vertically or horizontally. :confused:

    If a turbolift were traveling diagonally the lights at the various deck levels would equally appear in the turbolift as if one were traveling vertically.

    It's an idea that just popped up when I put a ruler at the bow part of the dorsal section connecting the engineering and primary hull (on Doug Drexler's blueprint). It miraculously seems to end just below the turbolift of the main bridge.

    I'm confident that from a ship designer's point of view you'd like to have a turbolift system that enables you to reach all decks in the shortest amount of time (especially if the chief engineer is needed in engineering).

    That could explain the long turbolift ride in "The Enterprise Incident" when Spock takes the female Romulan commander to ... the cargo hold in the engineering hull?

    And it would of course provide all the space to have a nice engineering room at the stern of the saucer section which wouldn't have to share space with a turbolift tube...;)

    Bob
     
  11. MarsWeeps

    MarsWeeps Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    This is exactly what I believe. I could never accept the "35 degree offset" bridge explanation. It just seems a poorly contrived theory of why the turbo shaft as seen from the outside of the ship sits at the rear of the bridge, while the internal doors are offset from the rear. I always envisioned a "staging area" where at least one extra turbolift waits in place for someone to enter from the bridge. It also slides off to the side when another lift arrives.
     
  12. MarsWeeps

    MarsWeeps Fleet Captain Premium Member

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    And...while we are on the subject of turbolifts...what are the purpose of the handles? Sometimes people seem to grab and twist them, other times they don't. Are they some type of manual control?
     
  13. sbk1234

    sbk1234 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I realize this isn't a strong argument, but it's the best I've got. In Star Trek 5, the turboshafts certainly seemed wide enough to handle a larger car.
    Or there could have been the larger, dedicated sick bay shaft.
     
  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Appeal to Star Trek V is it's own special category of arguments. ;) :lol:
    Yeah, but it didn't go to the bridge, one of the most important places on the whole ship. And the way those panels kept shorting out all the time...

    Plus, you'd think that moving heavy over-sized equipment around would be an issue too, especially in an era without intra-ship beaming. I suppose—maybe—that the no intra-ship beaming limitation might not rule out beaming from, say, one cargo transporter to another on the same ship, though. Same for moving people from transporter room to transporter room, perhaps?
     
  15. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    I think mainly because the turboshaft network is portrayed as perfectly rectangular in graphics from ST:TMP on. But no doubt there are exceptions here and there - and the TOS ship certainly is famous for angled features such as the chutes Scotty is always climbing up to access this system or that. And a turboshaft following the contours of the connecting neck would indeed make a lot of sense. Although the rows of windows there place rather strict limitations on that, and would better match the idea of a perfectly vertical shaft just ahead of the vertical stack of windows. Otherwise, there would be very little space between a window and the turboshaft.

    Whether we see a long turbolift ride there, or merely a long, dialogue-heavy scene that begins with a turbolift ride, is something for the viewer to decide. Certainly the signs of ongoing turbolift travel, such as visibly flashing lights in the background or distinct turbo-travel noises, disappear almost immediately after our protagonist and antagonist board the lift.

    We have strong reasons to insist that bridge turbolift station placement in the TMP-refitted ship is completely arbitrary and can be changed by two men with antigrav grapplers in half an hour; any position from "directly aft" to "directly to both sides" is available. It thus doesn't really pay off to insist that the TOS ship bridge turbolift placement would be nailed down by some external feature...

    If we interpret that stern-facing bump as a turboshaft, then we could argue it's an extension of the main turboshaft up from the bridge level, intended to enable the lift network to be connected to another, from a fellow starship or a starbase. And wherever the bridge turbolift would be located, it would be off to the side of this shaft, so as not to block the passage.

    Many episodes would allow us to interpret them as "dead man's handles" of some sort: you can't give the lift a voice command unless you simultaneously twist a handle to indicate you really mean it. That way, you won't be crushed by the doors if you discuss last evening's exciting game of BRIDGE while stepping aboard, or spread the latest rumors about what Ensign Jawline and Yeoman Softfocus were doing at SICKBAY while stepping off.

    However, this doesn't cover all the bases, especially the ones where nobody gives a voice command. OTOH, the handle doesn't appear to be a convenient selector for complex orders such as "as close to Cabin 7G221 as possible" or "Deck 16, forward port station". Perhaps the system is smarter than we give it credit for? Perhaps the turbolifts run on regular, predictable routes like a bus, unless you specify a destination, and the handles are for activating or overriding the bus functionality.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  16. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    When it come to equipment and turbolifts, I remember this from history.

    When the German scientists were designing the A4 rocket (V2), one of the criteria was it had to be able, laying on it's side on a railcar, to pass through all European railroad tunnels.

    It seem to me that the majority of the equipment (some exceptions) aboard the Enterprise would be capable of being disassembled to the point that it would be able to fit inside of a turbolift car. The turbolift is the ship's transportation system, that and the corridors. If you wanted to move something from the shuttle flight deck up to the bow of the saucer section, you pretty much stuck using the turbolift. Things aboard the ship will be specifically designed to enter the lift car. Everything will come apart.

    There will be exceptions of course.

    :)
     
  17. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    No, "the turbolift in motion" sound is audible for a full minute, almost the whole time Spock and the Romulan commander are in the lift. You and I had the same conversation last year, over in Trek Tech, remember? The online link to the episode appears to have moved now, though.

     
  18. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry for the double post, but here's a few explanations that could explain "The Enterprise Incident deck two puzzle" in continuity, without considering it an error.

    1. The elevator system was unusually busy at that moment.
    2. Spock overrode the normal sequence, and took the elevator for a joyride, in order to talk to the commander for a minute.
    3. A cipher of some kind was automatically in effect, to prevent the Romulan commander from learning too much about the internal arrangement of the ship (cf "hours could seem like days").
    4. There was no cipher, but the elevator knew that in context "deck two" meant the second deck of sleeping quarters.
     
  19. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Or 5. the sound isn't related to turbolift movement as much as it is to the turbolift being inside the constantly humming network of shafts; the sound fades into the background when the doors are opened and ambient noises of another type drown it out.

    Although I like the theory #2 best. :) Perhaps the waiting area for bridge turbolifts is below Deck 2 (and this somehow relates to how turbolifts were unusable below Deck 3 specifically in ST2:TWoK), and Spock simply holding the lift would have caused undue traffic jams for that reason?

    Or then the waiting area is on Deck 2, and the noise comes from all those other lifts busily humming?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. Maple Dog

    Maple Dog Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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