How come theres never a queue for the Turbo Lift on the Bridge ?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Delta Vega, Sep 14, 2012.

  1. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Its always available, never a hitch.

    Walk to door..............swoosh............door opens, viola !

    Now having the dubious pleasure of living in a Multi Storey building, experience tells me that there is never a scenario where the lift can always be at your floor, turbo or not.

    So whats the script here, am losing sleep over it.
    In "The Alternative Factor" Lazarus strops off the Bridge after a tete a tete with James T, within less than two seconds a security dude is dispatched to follow him.

    Walks to door...........swoosh.........door opens, viola !
    Lazarus is not in the lift, hes already gone.
    Fuckin lift must go at Warp Speed for this to occur :confused:
    So how come ?
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    One fairly simple explanation actually explains another mystery, too.

    Remember that turbolifts do not move on cables or rails like today's lifts. They are capable of overtaking, just like taxi cabs today. This means that a lift cab held in readiness near the bridge does not block other lift cabs from accessing the bridge. Not if there's a "parking lot" in the turboshaft at or near bridge level.

    Now note that the turbolift station in TOS is not at the back of the bridge, opposite the viewscreen and behind Kirk's back. It's a bit off to the side. In TOS movies, there are multiple lifts, and they change location at each refit, without affecting the exterior looks of the ship at all.

    Now, it could well be assumed that there is a central turboshaft in Kirk's ship, right at ship centerline, climbing all the way to the bridge. And then there's a little side branch that ends at the door... Perfect for the "taxi rank" system where multiple cabs are waiting, and one pulls to the doors whenever somebody needs a ride down while another remains waiting.

    In the movies, there are probably two side-by-side vertical shafts, just as seen at the Recreation Deck (a facility that would have to be located at ship centerline, close to saucer axis, because there's no room for it elsewhere). And then these convenient side branches to serve the two turbolift stations at the bridge, the length of the branches being easily modifiable.

    In both cases, we would have to assume that the bridge is not quite flush with the top of the ship, but lies a bit lower down, in order for the side branches to exist. But we have to assume that in any case in the movies, because the sets from the later movies really wouldn't fit inside otherwise. And it makes good sense in ST:TMP as well: we notice that when Spock boards the ship through a docking port at the very top of the ship, he then needs to enter a turbolift in order to access the bridge, suggesting the two are at different heights.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like the idea that the huge tube behind the bridge holds empty cars. When one slides down, another locks into place so there's always an empty car. That would reconcile the size of the thing with the bridge on the Enterprise model and also keep the bridge facing front instead of to the side.
     
  4. Methos

    Methos Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    yeah... i'm sure there's more than one turbolift car, given the sheer size of the tube system, it wouldn't make sense to have only one car whizzing around the entire system

    M
     
  5. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Lack of lifts is not what's causing delays in today's skyscraper elevator systems. It's lack of shafts or "lanes" for the lifts. Today, the only way to have eight lifts serve a floor is to have eight shafts (*). But if the lifts could overtake, then it would suffice to have just two shafts, like a two-lane road: eight (or more) lifts could then zip up one lane, down another, and swerve to the opposite line if a stopped lift at some floor blocked the way up or down.

    Now, even two shafts take up a lot of space. So the starship would probably just have one shaft, and then little side alcoves for overtaking - much like the railway network typically only has a single rail for long stretches, plus side rails at suitable intervals so that trains going in opposite directions can pass.

    Timo Saloniemi

    (*) Okay, there's another way, sort of. The situation with modern skyscrapers is actually so desperate that there are plans of stringing up several lift cabs from the same cable, atop each other, so that when people board at Level 8, others can disembark at Level 7. Current technology cannot create cable-free, sidestepping lifts yet, so vertical stacking of some sort or another is better than nothing.
     
  6. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Timo, I`m liking all those explanations, but somehow I dont think even the writers thought of them.

    To me, the turbolift thing has always been a flaw in set design, leading to silly but nevertheless important questions like mine.

    Why not a double lift, two doors leading to cars, side by side ?

    Parked and overtaking cars sound great in todays speculative technology, but in 1966 would not even have been given credence.
     
  7. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    ^Maybe not by the average TV viewer, but perhaps Matt Jefferies thought about it when he designed Enterprise, and anyone else who worked on the design.
     
  8. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I remember reading somewheres once that the Captain had a dedicated turbolift that "followed him around" the ship so's he'd never have to wait for one.
     
  9. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    So what happens if somebody gets on at the 8th floor and wants off at the first floor? If there's a car stacked underneath it (and for the sake of argument, there's no basement/parkade level), how do the occupants get to the first floor? Get out and walk down the stairs?
     
  10. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's also no security protocol for the bridge turbo lift either. Anyone can go in there and they notice the intruder only when he steps on the bridge.
     
  11. sbk1234

    sbk1234 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I remember reading somewhere that an idea was (at least) the senior officers had a turbolift car "following" them where ever they went, so they'd always have a car nearby and wouldn't have to wait. Not always the "same" car, but always a car nearby. It seems to be plausible, since the captain, first officer, or doctor for instance should never be delayed anywhere they go.
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Not always. ;)

    Right before the first round of "I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen" in The Naked Time, Kirk had to wait for an elevator, which he ordered Uhura to expedite. From http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/7.htm:
     
  13. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Wasnt that because Reilly had fucked with all the ships systems from his console in Engineering ?
     
  14. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In Kuala Lumpur, the Petronas Towers has 29 double-decker elevator cars, the lower deck of the elevator takes passengers to odd numbered floors and upper deck to even numbered floors.

    You use a escalator in the lobby to get to and from the upper deck of the elevator.

    :)
     
  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Unclear, but I never thought so. I read Kirk's reaction (of a frustrated faux pound on the doors) as that the wait was really bad timing. Uhura didn't have any trouble clearing the rube; I'd expect her to have a harder time if Riley had actually messed something up (compare with the trouble she has getting him off the intercom later). But who knows? You could imagine that Riley did just randomize the elevators and then went on to other mischief.
     
  16. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Another possibility is that there is a circular turbo lift shaft surrounding the bridge, between the consoles and outer dome, and when one turbo lift exits, it just does a loop around the bridge and comes back to the shaft? This would explain why the T/L station on the bridge is offset from the main tube visible from the outside, so as to make the way clear for the other(s) access the shaft? And of course, there could be more than one or two doing the merry-go-round at any given time? Of course, there’s really not enough space for this kind of set up, if the dimensions of the ship are to be taken literally, but who knows?
     
  17. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It makes sense that there would be a select number of locations on the ship that got priority for lift access, the bridge definitely would be one of those places. However given the design of the bridge area, a mini car park for lifts would fix better directly below the bridge on deck two.

    Places like sickbay, security, engineering, would likely have a small number of lifts just standing by. Places like the crew living quarters and the lower cargo holds not so likely.

    :)
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed. Although what are the specific instances of this happening? Van Gelder in "Dagger of the Mind", and..?

    ...Which makes it all the funnier that there doesn't appear to be a turbolift station of any sort immediately adjacent to sickbay, before or after the refit.

    And would that perhaps have been the not-so-proximal station on the sickbay level that McCoy was huffing and puffing at, when Saavik held up the lift? No priority override for the poor doctor!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    From The Ultimate Computer [http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/53.htm]:

    It's right there.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Yup, the turbolift is across the corridor (at least in some episodes), in both TOS, TFS and TNG. One wonders why there isn't a lift even closer to the sickbay - quarantine is a concern in several episodes...

    One also wonders why the lift diameter doesn't appear to cater for the horizontal carrying of a stretcher patient! It's a matter of just a few inches, but that just makes it all the more annoying, especially when we see those boxy TNG hover-stretchers that clearly cannot be tilted.

    Timo Saloniemi