How bitter was J. Michael Straczynski towards DS9?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by TalkieToaster, Nov 23, 2013.

  1. TalkieToaster

    TalkieToaster Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    I think B5 and DS9 are both great shows, and I think the "ripoff" allegations are mostly pretty dumb. I was wondering how much JMS was bothered by DS9. I've heard the people behind the two shows had pretty good relations with each other, but I've also heard about JMS saying some kinda douchey things about DS9.
     
  2. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Location:
    ...is insane. --JMS
    No disrespect intended, but if you want to know, almost all of JMS' posts are archived at http://jmsnews.com/ so you can go look it up. Some of it may even have been discussed in the sticky thread at the top of this forum.

    Most of the rest of the folks here have concluded that what happened over 20 years ago really doesn't matter anymore.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    I don't recall JMS ever being flat-out angry about it. He put in some good natured jabs ("This isn't some Deep Space franchise, this station is about something!"), and probably wasn't too happy when Robert Foxworth got double-booked on DS9 and B5 at the same time and happened to choose DS9*, but other than that, any 'anger' issues were probably largely fan generated.

    *RF chose DS9 because it was a two-parter (Homefront/Paradise Lost). So JMS then killed off General Hague, whom RF had been playing on B5. Don't piss off the show-runner. :lol:
     
  4. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
  5. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    He felt that Rick Berman and Michael Piller didn't rip him off, but he does think that some Paramount Exec probably used some ideas he remembered from JMS and put them in DS9.
     
  6. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    T'Girl
    Speak for yourself, I and plenty of others are intensely interested in what happen involving Trek in the past.



    :)
     
  7. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Location:
    ...is insane. --JMS
    Though JMS allowed it to stay in the script, it was actually Peter David who wrote that line. ;)

    Jan
     
  8. Mister Spock

    Mister Spock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Location:
    North London, England
    There's a nice outtake on one of the Babylon 5 DVD's where the character Major Ryan, played by Bruce McGill, is asked the fate of General Hague and replies with:

    "General Hague... is doing Deep Space Nine. It seems he was double-booked by his agent and there was nothing to be done. So you'll have to do with me, sir."
     
  9. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Location:
    UK
    This again? Oh dear.

    Look, it's been said over and over and over that whatever concepts or ideas may or may not have been "borrowed" from JMS's early pitch to Paramount, JMS has never expressed what I'd call "bitterness" about the whole thing. Mildly peeved at the time, perhaps. They were after all in direct competition and he may have made some tongue-in-cheek jabs here and there. But even if there was more too it, it's all water under the bridge, down the valley and out into the ocean.

    It seems the only people who care are those who insist on exhuming this zombie of a straw-man argument for reasons I can't even begin to fathom, if indeed I ever cared to try.

    Further to what Jan points out regarding Peter David's line; it should be noted for those that don't know (I certainly didn't before I looked it up) that David has written over 40 Star Trek novels over the years (plus 3 B5 ones!) so the idea that there was ever any true animosity here is quite frankly preposterous.

    I am however a little curious as to why he was never tapped to write for one of the shows.
     
  10. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    You do realize that not everyone has the same knowledge base and that questions like that come up regularly is absolutely natural?
     
  11. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    Let's be clear: JMS wasn't bitter toward Berman, Piller or Taylor. He was bitter toward Paramount, and yes, he did consider legal action.
     
  12. Agenda

    Agenda Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Who knows what happened. But considering JMS's conduct regarding Before Watchmen, I'll never feel too sorry for him anyway.
     
  13. Ensign_Redshirt

    Ensign_Redshirt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    I would take everything Captain Braxton says with a grain of salt IMO... ;)
     
  14. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Location:
    ...is insane. --JMS
    You mean this behavior? Where he and the other writers treated the characters created by (but not owned by) Moore with respect after Moore's repeated refusal to do so regardless of invitations by DC? Bottom line, Moore played 'dog in the manger' and had no complaint coming.

    Jan
     
  15. Agenda

    Agenda Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Justify it all you like if it makes you and your hero feel better.
     
  16. Ensign_Redshirt

    Ensign_Redshirt Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2007
    To be honest, Alan Moore always seemed to be a bit... touchy when it came to his graphic novels. He apparently hates pretty much everything other people are doing with them, be it the publication of prequel comics or the making of film adaptations.

    Well, if it's that important to him he just shouldn't have signed contracts allowing DC to do just this, I guess...
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  17. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Location:
    Randyland
    The bottom line here is that we fans got not one, but two space station based shows to watch and enjoy.

    And after twenty years, isn't THAT more important?
     
  18. Jan

    Jan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2005
    Location:
    ...is insane. --JMS
    What's to justify? I haven't seen any kind of cogent, rational rebuttal. Did you actually read any of the books at all?
     
  19. Reverend

    Reverend Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2002
    Location:
    UK
    To be fair to Moore, he has been burnt by both the comics and movie industries, so I can see why he'd be prickly. However, when it comes to an argument about respecting the wishes of the original author (implicit or otherwise) considering what Moore chose to do with the characters of L. Frank Baum and J. M. Barrie, I rather think he gave up the moral high ground in this instance.
     
  20. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2003
    Location:
    The Digital Garden
    What's Babylon 5?:lol: