Homosexuals and Deltans

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Sam_I_Am, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    I'd be interested in your source material on that. It's the first I've heard of it.

    As for the Orion/Deltan pheromones things, keep in mind this was Roddenberry's era and he wasn't particularly subtle at times. ;)
     
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
  3. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    ^ The problem with that theory is it doesn't really explain what attracts lesbians and bi-sexuals.
     
  4. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    ^It only explains how pheromones* work. Sexuality is obviously much more complex than a single biochemical reaction.

    *ETA: I should be precise in saying that this refers only to those pheromones associated with sexual arousal in the brain.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2013
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    According to background info from now-defunct promotional websites, Captain Robau of the USS Kelvin was a human, born in Cuba and raised in the Middle-East.

    The bald guy on the bridge in ID is Science Officer 0718, according to actor Joseph Gatt he's a human cyborg linked directly to the Enterprise computer.

    The bald woman who takes over navigation from Chekov is named Darwin, but nothing else is known bout her.



    I think the only other time we've seen someone definitely intended to be Deltan was the guy with the awful conehead skullcap on the Excelsior in STIII, who is identified as such in the script.
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Interesting read. Not conclusive evidence it seems, but interesting nonetheless. Certainly back in the 60's/70's Gene didn't know this much and even if he had, Trek's always taken a "magic" approach to science so it might not have changed anyways.

    I still have to go with in the end that sexuality is a choice. Either we're sentient beings or we're not and while we may have certain instincts, the conscious mind prevails over that.

    Heck, the article itself seems to suggest that given it said the part of the nose that's receptive to pheromones is dormant and I wonder if that's an evolutionary side effect as the species got more intelligent.
     
  7. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    I think we still have some sort of animal instincts that sometimes assert themselves. Particularly during rainy seasons, as many people prefer to stay indoors rather than go outside. I figure it's the old instinctual patterns of when our prehistoric ancestors were huddling in caves.
     
  8. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    If such a device is used in future episodes or films, I believe that the writers would be justly taken to task if they failed to explain how "super-pheromones" work with sexual orientation, but also between species. There's no reason to believe that someone would become sexually intoxicated by another species pheromones.


    Which is why I tend to separate sexual orientation and sexual identity. As much as there may a natural attraction to one gender or another (or lack thereof), many individuals will still find pleasure with someone opposite of that orientation. There is much room for sexual creativity above and beyond orientation, and I think that in-universe it would be the best explanation for why Riker felt so strongly about Soren.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Well all the races in Trek seem to be able to interbreed. Human/Vulcans, Trill/Klingons, Human/Trill, Bajoran/Cardassian, Human/Klingon, Human/Romulan and so forth. So by the logic presented -in the Trek universe- I guess I could see pheromones working cross-racially since they're all apparently genetically compatible.

    It's an interesting point you make about sexual identity vs orientation. I'm not sure I distinguish completely between the two, at the very least they seem to overlap to me. Though you make a good point about the pleasure part of it being possible with someone that doesn't conform to either. Riker definitely is a good point, though Soren(before they "corrected" her) just gave the vibe that she saw a penis for the first time and was into that. If that episode was supposed to be about the rights of homosexuals they kinda misaligned the message.

    But really if we ever do get into space and are interacting with completely alien species, that is gonna screw with people's sexual identifications(pardon the pun). "Not all species keep their genitals in the same place, Captain." Kim hinted at this too with his girlfriend from the Disease just describing it as "different." I got the hint that the parts didn't exactly line up traditionally there.
     
  10. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    Deep Space 9
    Personally I do too and for the Deltans it just doesn't fit with them. For a race where sex is an integral part of their society they don't need pheromones to attract potential mates, for them talking about who stuck what in where the night before would be like humans discussing the weather, and since they don't seem to have sex with other races they see as being too inferior for their intercourse then they have no need for a biology that allows them to attract other species.

    Anytime I use Deltans I have never given them super-pheromones, as it just seems unnecessary. I find the Oath a far more interesting angle on their culture, and what they'd had to do to "fit it" with the rest of the galaxy.
     
  11. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    The only canon thing we know about the sexuality of Deltans at all is the oath of celibacy thing from Ilia, and a bit from ENT were Travis said they were attractive and open. Everything else is from novels, or even less canon sources than that (much of it Phase II background materials).
     
  12. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    A canon debate over something Roddenberry wrote? That's kinda funny yet indicative of how inconsistent Trek canon is. :p
     
  13. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    At the Piano
    All I know is that I would be in serious trouble around Deltans.
     
  14. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Did the pheromones idea come from Enterprise? It's not something I remember from any other source.

    I actually like the idea of pheromones if it's something voluntary and controlled, which is something a sexually-advanced species like the Deltans should be able to do. It makes sense, if they have sensory and extra-sensory powers related to that aspect of life, for them to have refined biochemical control too; Deltan courting could be a delicate dance of chemical cues in addition to its other elements, with the right cues needed to make sex possible at all. (I know the original idea was for Deltan foreplay to consist of "lovers putting images in each others' minds," but how boring is that...)

    I like the Deltans much too much, admittedly. They're my favorite under-used Trek species. If I got to write them for a show I suspect I'd be one of those writers giving his pet species new super-powers every other episode... :)

    (As for Oath of Celibacy business: maybe we should take it with a grain of salt? If the Deltans observe it as strictly as humans observe the Prime Directive...)
     
  15. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    I'm curious. Did we all just forget the scene in TMP in Sickbay. Where the Ilia probe is being examined by Dr McCoy and Chapel. Chapel comments that even she noticed her (Ilia-probe). The examination showed that the probe had replicated Ilia's pheremone function using microscopic pumps. Kirk commented that if Ilia had been replicated so perfectly and completely that the probe might be suceptable to emotional influence from Decker.
     
  16. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    I did not remember that, no. Or rather I remember the scene but not the mention of a pheromone function. It's been a while, though.
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    How do we know you aren't Deltan? :lol:
     
  18. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    Because the straight females and homosexual males don't want to have sex with him because of his pheromones. Duh. ;)
     
  19. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    At the Piano
    A quick glance at my social life would tell the tale. :p

    Though you do make an excellent point, good sir!
     
  20. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    If somebody doesn't want to sleep with a Deltan because of this issue, is that pheromones or fear o'moans?
     

Share This Page