Hirogen vs Dominion?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by bbjeg, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    The Dominion have power and numbers but the Hirogen are formidable to species 8472 and I haven't seen a Hirogen Borg even though they're close to each other. Who would win in an all out war?
     
  2. Lt. Cheka Wey

    Lt. Cheka Wey Commander

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    Dominion, they seem much bigger.
     
  3. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    On second thought, even though I think the Hirogens "hunter way" was way underused, the dominion will probably win. The ultimate hunters vs the ultimate predators like the Dominion with numbers backing it would be a overwhelming fight for the Hirogen.
     
  4. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We never got any clear indication in Voyager how big the Hirogen really are.

    But, they did appear both in season 4 and season 7, at points in space 30000 light years away from each other. And it's implied they controlled most of that giant communication network that Voyager blew up in season 4. They are a more powerful race than is ever stated directly in Voyager.

    Against the full force of the Dominion fleet the Dominion probably wins, but assuming they wouldn't be able to send their entire fleet to the Hirogen front, I think the Hirogen would win. Also the great link would be a lot more vulnerable to them than the Cardassians and Romulans.
     
  5. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    After digging out my Star Trek Star Chart Atlas (It was only packed away because I'm still unpacking) Dominion space is about 15,000 light years long verses the Hirogen 30,000 light year network. Hirogen space is 2x bigger.
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Controlling an interstellar empire that spans 15,000 light years and an essentially nomadic hunting culture spread out across 30,000 light years are two very different things.
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Dominion, no contest.
     
  8. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Apples and oranges. Hirogen are hunters. They would want to "bag a founder" as their ultimate trophy. The dominion would be more focused on conquering the Hirogen. So easily the Dominion would win; they are more organized.
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But the real challenge would be nailing that founder to the wall.
     
  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hirogen would lose on numbers alone. They only travel in small groups. The Dominion send thousands of Jem'Hadar out at any given time.
     
  11. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    The more I think about it, the more I think the Hirogen won't be so easily defeated. The Dominion fall to federation weapons while the Hirogen negates species 8472's powerful biogenic energy weapon, which was capable of shattering a borg cube. Their armor must be strong.

    That's the thing, the Hirogen have no planet, so the Jem'Hadar would have to spread thin across Hirogen space to conquer them.

    If the Hirogen hull is as strong as I think it is, it'll be like a thousand Antelope verses a pack of lions.
     
  12. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    What? You can't nail a bucket to the wall?
     
  13. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    Also, the Hirogen warships are equipped with monotanium armor plating, which have the added effect of scattering targeting beams. (VOY: "Hunters") They may be able to hide from the Dominion.
     
  14. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's really a simplified explanation. The Federation didn't cause the Dominion to "fall" all they really did was check their invasion of the Alpha Quadrant, and only managed to do that because the chokepoint that was the wormhole was so often closed that they couldn't bring their full forces to bear.

    That one 8472 the Hirogen hunted was described as being wounded even before the hunt started. So isolating one wounded 8472 is not the equivalent of saying Hirogen weaponry can unequivocally defeat them. Being Voyager beat the Hirogen on a number of fights, that would argue against super armor and more for cunning on the part of the Hirogen.

    Furthermore the Dominion's polaron weaponry did cut through the shields of the Federation when they first encountered them. It took the Federation years to counter that, Weyoun being surprised when the shields of DS9 held out against their opening barrage. So, it's just as likely those polaron beams would chew up the Hirogen until they adapt as it were. As for their stealth mode? The Dominion detected the Defiant's cloak rather easily with an anti-proton beam. Seems the same concept.

    But all that aside, it does come done to numbers. The Dominion regularly fielded fleets of thousands of ships and can build the quickly and breed crews for them even more quickly. An unusually large Hirogen group was a few dozen ships. And given the way they interact with each other, each individual hunter trying to be the alpha, they aren't team players at all.
     
  15. Vulcan Logician

    Vulcan Logician Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, R Star. It is obvious the Dominion would win. Look at it like this: in terms of motivation. The police (Dominion) exist in an organized set of units, all with a singular goal: to espouse its own order. The police are trying to arrest a serial killer (hirogen) who has caused fear in the neighborhood, but does not RULE the neighborhood. A serial killer may evade the police, but a serial killer will never destroy the entire police force. The police are too organized. They are a collective unit. Having a home planet has its advantages.
     
  16. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    I'm kinda geeking out on the Hirogen here but in the "Hunters" episode, the Alpha states he has been tracking 8472 for over fifty light years. Being an ancient race, maybe their "dicyclic" warp engines travel faster than transwarp. Also the Hirogen arsenal includes a subnucleonic beam that could perform rapid scans of other vessels and could severely disable ships, disrupting its propulsion and its navigational sensors.

    But Voyager never successfully destroyed a Hirogen ship.

    The Hirogen hull was far superior than voyagers weapons, the Dominion weapons may be as ineffective.
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm thinking you flatten the founder between two large sheets of transparent aluminum and mount it that way, so it moves around like a lava lamp. A flat lava lamp.
     
  18. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Wait I know who would win, whomever the plot dictated. :p
     
  19. Captain McBain

    Captain McBain Captain Captain

    :sigh:


    Another intriguing match would be the Krenim vs. The Dominion. Or the Krenim vs. the Borg.
     
  20. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    Who ever wins in a Hirogen vs Dominion fight, it'll be a long drawn out one and not the quick simple win due to Dominion numbers.

    I thougbt about starting that thread but there is a flaw with the Krenim time ship, once it blows time reverts itself. If the Krenim were to win, after 10000 years of peace when the ship gets hit by an asteroid or something like that, time would revert back.