Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discuss

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

The duplicate is a new person, same memories or not. The duplicate has been robbed of a chance to build his/her own life and memories. It's unethical any way you slice it. If you believe in souls, they are two separate individuals. If you believe in ethics, they are two separate individuals.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

That's not necessarily the case if the dublicate identifies with those memories as if he or she is the original.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

If someone were to make a 100% clone of you -- memories and all -- and then kill you, you're not that clone who's walking around. You're dead.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

But a duplicate wouldn't be treated the same by loved ones. Unlike nice, sweet little Sim who was accepted by the crew with absolutely no problem on Enteprise, (yeah right) most people would freak out around a duplicate of a loved one like Archer did. They wouldn't accept that duplicate as if nothing happened. Eventually, a duplicate would feel the sting.....that he or she isn't really the person whether the original is dead or not. There'd be emotional trauma, plus a duplicate would start to individuate eventually. Sim would have become less Trip-like. It's inevitable. He'd get the feeling that he didn't belong to the peer groups he remembered precisely because he wouldn't belong. He'd be SOL. It's unethical. Who am I? Do I belong nowhere?

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

If you're talking about the original dying after the copy was made, then it makes the issue even more interesting. For the brief time both of them existed, were they both the real "one"? Philosophers ponder this all the time without letting conventional thought or what we know about the laws of the universe get in their way. Of course, maybe what you've said is all there is to it and what I'm saying really is a bunch of nonsense. Whatever the case is, Nathan and Sylar still have problems and Madeline Zima is still hot.

My first thought was... That's their problem.

And yes, the duplicate would individuate, but that doesn't have to change or invalidate who he believes himself to be. As for that duplicate questioning himself, that could happen, or that person could end up mounting a defense because he does feel like he's the real one who belongs right where he is.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

Dude. Cold.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

What happened to the (Irish?) accent Knepper was using in the first scene? By his 2nd or 3rd scene it had almost entirely vanished.

I enjoyed the premiere. Like others, I enjoyed seeing Peter as a paramedic again. I'm not sure I like this Sylar/Nathan thing. Did they do this just to work around Quinto's absence? (Was he still filming Star Trek at the time?). What's the point of it? It just seems like another way not to kill Sylar outright. The moment I saw Claire's new friend Gretchen, I assumed she must be the killer -- but maybe that's what they want us to think!

Seeing "Darth Maul" was cool, though I didn't even recognize him in that opening sequence at the funeral. I thought his WTF reactions when Peter was able to keep up and best him were great.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

And now Peter has the power... to get whatever clam chowder he wants.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

You hit the nail on the head. They're afraid to get rid of Sylar. Pity they didn't do the right thing and cut poor Adrian Pasdar loose. My show really could have used him as the second of the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

I would hope they tackle this on the show but I doubt it, just seems too heady a topic for these writers.

and I really think this copy would be a fascinating character in its own right but again i dont think the writers would care b/c then that would mean that its a separate entity from Sylar. Unless its Sylar himself who decides he wants to be Nathan, which to me would be the worst outcome in all this.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

No lie. And I wouldn't put it past this staff, which is why I don't watch anymore. They'd have had a more entertaining story by simply fleshing out the conflict between Peter and REAL Nathan because of the shooting and Nathan then turning on all the specials. There's your story right there, but Nathan wasn't an important enough character to them. Their precious Sylar is. Sylathan is Sylar. Period. How can he be anything but Sylar? What? Peter's going to accept him if he wants to be Nathan?
I don't buy that for a moment.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

So is peter still only able to get one power at a time? He had Sureshs power and now has Ray parks speed power, Or does he have them both?

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

Good thing Kristin Kreuk isn't playing Sylar. She was already worshiped by showrunners of one TV show at the expense of the show. Who knows what would happen if you jacked up that unconditional worship to 1.21 gigawatts.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

I'm not feeling very generous today so this one gets an Average.

This show is increasingly frustratingly schitzo - a cross between potentially fascinating and teeth-grindingly uninteresting plotlines.

Fascinating:

Sylar tries to hang onto his Nathan persona while simultaneously taking over Matt's brain (nifty trick, tho I think it's Matt's projection of Sylar into his own mind that is taking over his brain since even Sylar cannot be two places at once). Matt has always had the most corrupting power, so it's high time he started getting corrupted. I'm not sure if the scene in the interrogation room was supposed to be hysterically funny, but I thought it was funnier than most intentional comedy I've seen lately, and this all bodes well for more wonderful insanity.

Samuel and his merry band of blatant Carnivale ripoffs. Love the notion of a bunch of mutants who are far from being "eeevil" but simply have an agenda that puts them into dangerous conflict with Our Heroes. Robert Knepper definitely delivers, not that I ever had any doubts.

Peter comes up with a way to make sense of his horrifyingly out-of-control life. Of course, being Peter, it's a stupid idea, but at least he's trying. He's obviously suffering from PTSD - and it's nice to see realistic emotional fallout for one of these characters - and is coping by retreating to behavior that he assumes is unassailably "good" - martyring himself in the service of others and jettisoning everything from his life that could possibly hurt him.

In short, he's still the emotionally stunted, self-dramatizing coward he's always been, but I'll cut him some slack because this time, he's not being stupid in an obvious way (on the surface, he seems extremely self-sacrificing and brave, which is crucial to his shaky self-esteem) and he just doesn't realize what the hell he's doing. Noah trying to talk some sense into him was the best scene in both episodes (not that it did any good; stubborn is still obviously part of Peter's DNA.)

And before this sounds like I'm slamming the poor guy, he remains my favorite character on the show, especially if he a) doesn't cut off his lovely hair ever again and b) keeps wearing the sexy paramedic uniform.

Meh:

Claire goes to college. Not as bad as the grating high school scenes, tho, so I can hang in there for now. So, new roomie is a stalker who pushed Trajectory Girl out the window, but not hard enough that it would look like anything but suicide, right?

Kill These Characters Already, Please.

Hiro - the writers haven't known what to do with this guy since S1. It's not nice for them to tease us with his terminal illness stuff that we know damn well will turn out to be another cop-out. The time travel BS with Ando and Kimiko was lazy, lazy writing. If those two had been together since they were teenagers, they'd be married by now or at the very least, in a relationship solid enough that Ando wouldn't just go galavanting to New York with his buddy at the drop of a hat. There should be plenty of repercussions for the timeline, yet everything else seems unchanged.

Tracey - the writers don't have a clue who this character is. She goes from murderous psycho to calmly sharing clam chowder with Noah in the blink of an eye.

WTF?!?

Did they fire Mohinder?

Question:

Uh, isn't it a bad idea to have a Twelve-Step program at work and have your boss attend the meetings so he can get a good look at just what a total psycho you are? Whatever happened to anonymity? At least Matt took a page from the Dexter Morgan playbook and didn't tell everyone what his addiction is, precisely.

Oh well. The potentially fascinating stuff is more than enough to keep me watching. After all, I can always fast-forward Hiro and Tracey if they get too boring to tolerate.

The ratings are pretty much on par with where the show left off last season. And what never gets reported is international revenues. Heroes is the most pirated show on the planet, and the other top pirated shows are also the big viewership drawers, which implies that the regular viewership is also still large. Add in large increases for time-shifting, paid downloads and DVD sales, and it's hard to say just where Heroes sits, revenue-wise.

Also, with the blatant product placements, the studio should be able to charge Guitar Hero for all the pirated viewing, too. (That may explain why Heroes is so blatant about product placement.)

It doesn't matter to me, but it does matter to the person I'm a copy of, if someone tries to tell her that it's okay if they kill her because hey, I'm alive, so what's your problem?

The metaphysics of this are less interesting to me - and too hard to force into a plotline - than how Peter and Claire react. I could see Peter for instance reacting a bit like Angela after the shock wears off - hey, he's a Nathan if not the Nathan.

Claire, tho - total squick.

Depends on how emotionally needy they are. Angela and Peter are both very needy people.

That would be the most ludicrous twist that's happened to the poor guy yet - his whole schitck is wanting to be special and individual. That's why what's happened to him is poetic justice, his worst fears come true.

Now if Nathan-Sylar develops an individual sense of identity and a will to live - and why wouldn't he? - he might resist a re-take-over by Sylar-Sylar. But that wouldn't really be Sylar making that decision. Nathan-Sylar is a new character, neither Nathan nor Sylar.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

I was just about to say, anyone getting some major Head Baltar vibes here?

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

Peter might be the only character so far to have actually gotten smarter. Staying away from his family and Noah is a wise way to avoid getting into trouble and misery. Now, if he could learn to act without restorting to his "extensive" array of facial contortions...

Even if Sylar decides to embrace his Nathan persona, that doesn't change the fact that he's still Sylar. He'll just be a guy playing the role of the Nathan. I'm glad at least they redeemed HRG a little by his realization that what he helped do was incredibly stupid.

Pasdar still managed to do a good job with what he was given yesterday.

No Mohinder might have been the highlight of the episodes. It's a shame too because I thought he was a really good character in Season 1.

Claire didn't annoy me yesterday but Hiro did. His character is not only embarrassing but a first class, selfish jackass as well, especially with the way he treats Ando.

Should Sylar have stayed dead after Season 1? I'd say so but the fact is that the character has been among the most consistently entertaining on the show. His ripping on Parkman last night was pretty damn funny.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

^ When Hiro had to go on about "look what I did for you Ando," that was really annoying and self-serving. But also completely expected since obviously the writers seem to think they're doing good by him.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

More like Harvey vibes. Maybe we should call him Sylarvey.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

Ugh. Heroes doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with the superb Farscape.

 

Re: Heroes: "Orientation" and "Jump, Push, Fall" 9/21 - Grade & Discus

exactly and Nathan is powerful, wealthy, has family, friends, etc... wouldnt he love to be him? he seemed to be enjoying being him towards the end of last season.

yes! that's what I want to happen. But that means Sylar loses and the writers wont let that happen unless they give him Multiple Man powers and they split the body.