HEROES 3x08 "Villains" Discuss and Grade

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Dream, Nov 10, 2008.


Grade the episode

  1. Excellent

  2. Above average

  3. Average

  4. Below average

  5. Poor

  1. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

    Dec 2, 2001
    Hotel Transylvania
    That's ACTING student to you. :p
  2. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 16, 2004

    Though, you have to admit, more than half way through this volume, it might be nice to know what the Bad Guy's, Arthur's, goals are.

    And this flash back would have been quite the perfect thing, to, you know, explain what's HAPPENING in Season three, rather than what HAPPENED in Season one.
  3. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Oct 30, 1999
    Elle wasn't out of character. We've only seen her as a recurring character for half a season so far. It's reasonable to give the writers a year's worth of episodes to fully reveal all facets of a complex character. Elle is both a psycho and someone with a better nature that emerges under certain conditions. Ditto for Sylar.

    People are complex and multi-faceted, so this comes as no surprise to me. I'd object only if they'd gone on for two or three seasons with no indication of another side to these characters, but that hasn't been the case. With Sylar, they were dropping big hints left and right from the first. Now they're fleshing out Elle. Fleshing out one-dimensional characters is a sign of good writing. Would you prefer lousy writing instead? TV abounds with boring, one-dimensional characters so if that's what you want, you've got plenty of options. Try CBS.

    Arthur's motive behind creating Pinehearst is probably tied up with his overarching goal - Pinehearst is a means to an end. This is a big thing, so I wouldn't expect that to be revealed till the end of this season, and even then it may only be a partial explanation.

    We'll probably get hints along the way. Arthur's baldfaced statement that he considers himself superior to the common herd (and probably also superior to fellow metahumans) is a big hint that his goal some kind of megalomaniac desire to reshape the whole world along the lines he thinks best, possibly with metahumans as a kind of master-race ruling class?

    As for how he recruited his current gang, I don't really care. This isn't the sort of question whose answer interests me. What difference would it make? With the exception of Daphne, they're boring. Just another example of why Heroes should bank heavily on rotating in new characters. They work out maybe 25% of the time.

    Why do people want every single answer delivered to them immediately? The point of a serialized show is that the answers are revealed over time, and as we get the answers, new questions emerge. It can (and should) take years to answer everything - however many years the show runs for. When we have all the answers, the show ends. Who wants to watch a show when there's nothing more to learn?

    This is like a replay about all the crabbing over Lost. If you don't have the patience for serialized shows, then don't watch them. Jeezus.
  4. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 16, 2004
    I don't need EVERY single answer immediately. In fact, I don't need answers to some things...like "Why did Sylar go out and kill people?" "Because HRG and Elle pushed him over the edge!" Dumb answer.

    HOWEVER, some questions, like Papa Petrelli's ultimate goal SHOULD be answered, because it simply raises the stakes of the story for the characters. It raises the stakes for the audience.

    If his goal is to secure the world for super powered people, ok, great, now we know what's at stake. And what the heroes need to stop.

    But, if his goal is fuzzy, it creates a fuzzy story.

    Look back at Season one...they had to stop a nuclear explosion in New York City...that's what was at stake...we didn't know how, or who, but we got clues...

    (And yes...we know the world "might" be destroyed in Season three, but, now it's just a dumb cliche. We know who the bad guy is, why can't we know his goal?)

    There's a difference between a well crafted serialized show and a poor one. And Lost for a while WAS a poorly crafted show...because they didn't know they shape of their series, ie, how many episodes...so it lost it's focus. And the audience lost it's patience with filler and wandering.

    And that's what's happening here. And there's no excuse. They know how many episodes are going to be in this volume. THEY CHOSE to do it this way, and it's been wandering from the beginning of the season.

    So, yes, some of us ARE impatient...but it's not about wanting now now now, it's about wanting a GREAT story with GREAT characters, like we HAD.
  5. Ruaidhri

    Ruaidhri Commodore Commodore

    Jun 27, 2001
    Ruaidhri...Toronto in body, Philly in spirit!
    Finally saw the episode, and the first thing that came to mind was:

    It's a small world after all/it's a small world after all
    It's a small world after all/it's a small, small world

    I don't mind when plot points are connected together (the first season did this pretty well), but some of these things just seem so contrived. I am enjoying the season, but I've shaken my head a few times too.
  6. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

    Mar 3, 2006
    Yeah, what the hell is Mr. One Dimensional's ultimate goal?
  7. A Clockwork Lim

    A Clockwork Lim Lieutenant Commander

    Sep 24, 2008
    Elle had issues with Sylar even during the second season. It's very possible that what she did with Noah is what pushed her over to Full Blown Crazy herself; her inability to handle her part in the creation of a serial killer. All the repressed punish-other-gifted-people anger came to the surface as a result along with her daddy issues (especially since he, in all likelihood, is the one who assigned her to Noah).

    Noah was also very familiar with her in the second season, so having her as one of his partners makes sense as well.
  8. Kryton

    Kryton Admiral Admiral

    Dec 22, 2006
    In ur Starbug
    A second dimension? :p
  9. Irvy

    Irvy Commander Red Shirt

    Apr 25, 2005
    N Ireland
    Honestly, they give us a well thought out, intelligent show, and there's hosts of people crying and moaning because they're being asked to break the ultimate commandment of television: Thou shalt not use your brain.

    OK, so Heroes isn't going to hold your hand and spoon feed you through each episode. They have 3 dimensional characters who act like humans. Why are you not a killer? Because you've never been in a situation where it became life or death, future or no future, and your only option you seemed able to take was to kill. A big part of crime and acting "bad" is just that life was bluffing, and you just lost your hand, it's not all about evil plotting and laughing.
  10. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

    Apr 14, 2000
    QC, IL, USA
    If I actually thought that it was "well thought out" or "intelligent," you might have a point.

    They used to have 3-dimensional characters, but after season 1 most of the characters have become pretty flat and their personalities are randomly determined by what's convenient for the plot.
  11. He's Dead - Mix

    He's Dead - Mix Clean Old Mod Moderator

    Feb 4, 2002
    Somewhere in Connecticut
    Actually, that seems to be the ultimate commandment of the Heroes writing team now....
  12. Hermiod

    Hermiod Admiral Admiral

    Mar 16, 2006
    Same thing we do every night, Pinky, TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!
  13. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

    Apr 29, 2005
    i thought it was excellent. i read Coomic Book Resources' 'Behind the Eclipse' thing and somethings to bear in mind:

    Hiro's vision quest is condensing time. The end scene with HRG getting into Mo's cab was at a later point than mr exploding glasses man, Sylar was already killing by then. there was a line cut.

    Hiro's vision quest mixing time up also explains a couple of other temporal oddities.

    Arthur waanted Nathan killed to 'send a message' to the DA's office to back off investigating Linderman.
  14. Snaploud

    Snaploud Admiral Admiral

    Jul 5, 2001
    Massachusetts, USA
    Question: How does the "killing Nathan" plotline fit into the "Arthur in favor of destroying New York" plotline? Was he already planning to have Sylar take over for Nathan (in politics)?
  15. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

    Sep 16, 2004
    Answer: it doesn't. It's bad writing.