Hercules/Xena (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by kirk55555, Jul 8, 2014.

  1. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Enforcer (Hercules) - Nemesis, the former hit woman of the gods and Hercules former girlfriend, gets stripped of her immortality by Hera for refusing to kill Hercules. Hera then creates an enforcer made out of water to kill Hercules. this was a decent episode. It was interesting to see the fall out for Nemesis based on her last appearance on the show. The Enforcer was pretty entertaining in how weird she acted. The comedy relief character this episode was kind of annoying, but not too distracting. Overall, this was a decent episode.
     
  2. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Here She Comes... Miss Amphipolis (Xena) - This episode was not very good. Basically, Salmoneus summons Xena to help him save a beauty Pageant so a war doesn't break out. Everything involving the pageant, except Salmoneus himself (since he's usually always good) was annoying and uninteresting. I spent the whole time kind of wondering what the point is. If it was to dress women up in outfits just because, that is extremely stupid and most extras wear skimpier stuff anyway (which has always annoyed me, but I've come to expect bizarre attire from the Hercules/Xena universe). If it was supposed to be a comedy, it wasn't funny. Overall, this just wasn't very good.

    Oh, as one final comment on the episode. Regardless of what the Herc/Xena wiki says I really didn't get the feeling that Gabrielle was "jealous" when Miss Artiphys kissed Xena, more like she was just kind of rolling her eyes at it.
     
  3. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Destiny (Xena) - Xena returns to Callisto's village (I think) and thinks about what happened there. Gabrielle gets captured by crazy people, along with other villagers. Xena saves them, but gets hurt badly and is "dying". A flashback starts, and I decide to skip the episode because I don't want to see any of xena's past (its fine if there are consequences of the past that we see, but I have no desire to see flashbacks) and, since I know this isn't the series finale, she's not going to stay dead. So, I read the summary, and spared myself a pretty lame episode Skipped

    I'd automatically skip the next episode (The Quest), since it apparently continues from this one with Xena being "dead", but it has Bruce Campbell in it, which means it can't be all bad. So, I'll probably watch it, although its summary makes it seem like something even Bruce Campbell can't save.
     
  4. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :eek:

    I'm speechless. I've tried to express my confusion in words a couple of times, but it's impossible. There are no words.
     
  5. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    I know he'll miss the important eps. with Caesar. :shrug:
     
  6. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, if Caesar was that important, he'd be in the shows present. Knowing that Xena was evil until she met Hercules is about all of her past I need to know. I don't want to watch Xena be evil, she was actually pretty lame in her first Hercules appearance because they did "evil" Xena really, really badly. While I'm sure they'd do it better in her own show now that's she's a firmly established character, I don't want to see it. The past is over as far as the show is concerned. Any situation that comes from her past can be easily explained without wasting an episode watching a version of Xena I don't want to see.

    The fact that its directly leading to a almost certainly horrible second part doesn't help. If Bruce Campbell's name wasn't attached to The Quest, I'd have skipped right to A Necessary Evil. That episode itself is problematic because I've got 20 episodes of Hercules before I get to Surprise, which leads into A Necessary Evil, but I've decided to just go with it (it seems like complete BS to have a big Xena character have important events happen to her in a different show).

    So, for an update for the rest of the season (in case anyone is curious) the next episode is only getting watched because Bruce Campbell makes anything he's in at least tolerable, even if the premise is as bad as The Quest's. But that doesn't mean I'll end up watching it all, it seems like a very intolerable episode even with Campbell involved. After that A necessary Evil looks like it could be good (even without seeing the Hercules episode), then there is A Day in the Life which honestly seems like a very easy skip because it sounds horrible. Is it really that hard to write an episode where Xena and gabrielle have an adventure in the ancient world? Apparently so, because we keep getting gimmick episodes that fail horribly half the time. This one is all about the pointless things in Xena/Gabrielle's life that usually doesn't make it into an episode, and with good reason. Also, Xena/Gabrielle bathing together is so stupid my eyes might just permanently roll back into my head :lol:

    Then there is For Him the Bell Tolls, which will probably get skipped because it sounds like it will make me break my TV in anger. I like Joxer, but that episode (based off its summary) just seems like complete junk. Then the next few episodes are fine, but The Price is probably getting a skip for unbelievably reverting Xena to "evil Xena", a character I don't like and don't want to watch, especially when it happens for no reason. Then the rest of the season is ok until the last episode of season 2, A Comedy of Eros, which sounds terrible, and I'll have already skipped the other love god/goddess based episode of the season anyway.

    Basically, 3 episodes are almost guaranteed to be skipped of the last 10, with a fourth getting watched but with a possible skip 10-15 minutes in. I think the last part of this season has been effected by Lawless's injury more than I expected, and it definitely lead to them putting out some garbage episodes. Still, I like the characters and the show overall, and I'm hoping that the other 6 of the last 10 episodes are good, and that season 3 doesn't have something bad happen like another injury or something. When the show is good its very good, it just suffers from inconsistent writing.
     
  7. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    The overall theme of the episode is that true beauty is within the person, not on the surface, and that holds true for whichever gender you are, or feel yourself to be.

    Ohforpetessake. :(

    The Caesar episodes are crucial. While I'm not happy with how this series utterly mangles Julio-Claudian history, anything with Julius Caesar in it sets up later episodes in future seasons.

    A Day in the Life was a hoot (this is the one with the Frying Pan Incident and addresses an issue even Star Trek never figured out - where's the bathroom? :lol:). And please take note of who the director is. Michael Hurst - the guy who plays Iolaus in Hercules - directed this one, and he's directed other episodes in both series. Without exception, they are all excellent and while some people find them too campy, they're a nice balance to all the more serious, angsty episodes. Xena and Gabrielle do some heroic stuff, but woven around that are some of the everyday things that TV shows and movies tend to skip over, like when do the characters eat, what, and how.

    As for the 'romance'... think of it as subtext for the fans who see a relationship between the women that is more than just friendship, and if you prefer not to see that, feel free to ignore it.

    And please keep in mind that sometimes the people writing the plot summaries are not very good at it. For example, how popular would City on the Edge of Forever have been if its summary had been "Kirk falls in love with a social worker" instead of "After history is changed, Kirk must travel back to 1930s Earth to set it right"?
     
  8. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    Caesar is very much a part of Xena's present.
     
  9. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    Well, if you skip Adventures in the Sin Trade, and The Debt, a couple of 2-parters that dredge up Xena's evil past and feature flashbacks, you'll miss some of the greatest fantasy TV ever. :shrug:
     
  10. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, here's a sample of the plot summaries/info I get from the Hercules/Xena wiki

    The Quest:

    Basic Summary:
    For an example of the body of the article, aka the detailed summary of an episode, is what I go through if I'm deciding to skip an episode

    http://hercxena.wikia.com/wiki/The_Quest

    Its very detailed, so I know what happened. I won't read it unless I'm pretty sure I'll skip the episode based on the summary, and I'll only read it in detail if I've already skipped the episode. But, its really all I need to know about an episode I've skipped. That summary for The Quest wasn't one that screams "skip", but its on thin ice because its the continuation of the last horrible episode, and does have Xena being "dead". Here's an example of a summary that does scream "SKIP"

    For Him The Bell Tolls

    The flags on that summary? Cupid, Aphrodite, wedding, "places a spell on Joxer". I haven't had to see Aphrodite in an episode yet, but I was already planning to skip Hercules's The Apple, which sounds horrible and is focused on hijinks with Aphrodite. I'm pretty sure Aphrodite and Cupid will be something that makes me automatically skip an episode, since they both scream "stupid hijinks episode".

    As for A Day in the Life, there is a reason stuff like that is not shown normally. Its boring, if I wanted to see boring every day stuff in people's lives I'd watch a reality show. Also, I'm pretty sure woman on woman bathing isn't exactly an "everyday" thing, and is more of a "writer wants to stick women in a bath" thing, which is honestly just a disgusting attitude. I'm very anti-subtext anyway (every explicitly shown and talked about relationship for both Xena and Gabrielle are with guys, and several were very serious), and honestly it comes off more as horny writers playing with the actresses than anything else. So, while I probably wouldn't skip an episode based off of subtext alone, an episode about something I never wanted to see combined with horrible subtext is a really easy episode to skip.

    When it comes to Michael Hurst being a director, I generally don't care who is directing an episode of a tV show, unless they're just awful. If he directed this episode, he chose a stupid one to start with.

    Well then, I'll see him when he appears in the present. All they need to say is "Xena knew Caesar in her past" and I'll be as caught up as I need to be.

    Well, if its an episode where the majority of the story is showing something that happened before her first appearance on hercules, I won't watch it. I don't care what happened before she became good, its over and done with. She obviously survived whatever happened in the past, and I don't like Xena as an evil character anyway.

    I'm here to watch Xena have adventures, not waste 45-90 minutes watching a horrible version of Xena do things that don't matter. As far as I'm concerned, any past events can be easily explained (and almost certainly will be) by exposition if an episode needs to use something from Xena's past. I don't like evil Xena, and I'm not watching the show for her. Her past is boring, I want to see her normal adventures. I'm not here to watch "Xena, Warlord Princess".
     
  11. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    Well, then, all I can say is :brickwall:
     
  12. OmahaStar

    OmahaStar Disrespectful of his betters Admiral

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    That's why I gave up.
     
  13. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Quest (Xena) - This episode was really bad. Bruce Campbell made his parts entertaining, but everything with Gabrielle and the amazon's was horrible, especially the evil amazon queen. Xena possessing Autolycus was entertaining, but in the end it didn't make the episode worth watching. Even Bruce Campbell couldn't save this episode from just being garbage. Hopefully the next episode is better, even if the idiotic amazons are still part of the story.
     
  14. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    If I had to choose which female villain to go up against, I'd choose Callisto over Velasca, since Callisto was not always evil. Velasca has no goodness in her at all.
     
  15. Merlanthe

    Merlanthe Commander Red Shirt

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    If i remember correctly the episodes that look at what Xena got up to before her appearance on hercules and own series is not just a case of here is xena being evil but a case of here is xena being ruthless and ambitious and out for herself but also vulnerable and flawed and complex.

    I mostly remember the borias stuff and some of the ceaser stuff. Imho she didnt come accross as being evil just as i said above ambitious and ruthless and very much out for herself and that last one i think is ceasars fault. Its not the same as being evil.

    im glad your enjoying Callisto more now
     
  16. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Isn't one of the big arcs of the show Xena dealing with her past and trying to make up for it? If so then it seems to me that flashbacks would probably play a pretty major role in the story.
     
  17. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    They do. They're rare, but they're usually important to the plot. They show how she got where she is.
     
  18. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't care to know how she got there. She's already there, I want to know what happens next. Her past was covered sufficiently in her first few appearances. I mean, using stuff from her past to come back in the present is fine, but personally I don't need or want long flashbacks. Anything that needs to be explained can be explained with exposition, wasting an episode on a flashback is pointless.

    I don't care about the specifics of her activities as a warlord, its not a version of the character that I like. She was evil, she did bad things. I don't want to see it. I have better ways to use my time, like watching episodes that aren't irritating and actually continue her story.
     
  19. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    Forbin is right though. The Debt, parts 1 and 2 are episodes you must watch. You'll meet the woman who made Xena who she is, mentally, physically and spiritually, you'll find out how she became known as the Warrior Princess and you'll learn the truth behind a major historical figure. It's got adventure, both past and present, it's heavy on loyalty and betrayal and it's got some good stuff involving eastern mysticism. I look forward to your comments.
     
  20. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, don't hold your breath. Like I've said, I don't care about stuff like that. If an episode mostly takes place before Xena's first appearance on Hercules, I won't be watching it. I have absolutely no interest in seeing Xena's past. I don't like Xena's past, its annoying and you already know she'll end up being fine and being an evil warlord regardless of what happens until she meets Hercules. So, no, I won't be watching The Debt two parter.

    Now, for the latest episode I watched:

    A Necessary Evil (Xena) - This was ok. Velasca was a horrible villain, though. She was about as generic as they get, but luckily Callisto was there as an interesting villain. Callisto had some good scenes, like her conversation with Gabrielle by the campfire. The amazon's were also not very good, they really haven't been that interesting in any of their Xena appearances. I kind of wish they'd given a bit more explanation about how Callisto was alive and why she was trapped (I know it happened in a hercules episode, but you think a few lines to help people who didn't see the events would have been said, especially since Callisto is mostly a Xena villain) but it wasn't a huge deal. Overall this was a decent episode, but it would have been better with a better second villain than Velasca.