Hercules/Xena (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by kirk55555, Jul 8, 2014.

  1. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Since there hasn't been a thread in a while (I checked), I figured I'd start one, since I've recently decided to try the shows out. I haven't gotten to Xena yet (I'm going through Hercules Season 1 before getting to Xena), but I'm enjoying what I've seen so far. I got the older version of Hercules S1 on DVD, so I got the 5 TV movies with it. Some thoughts on the movies: (spoiler'd for length, although there are obviously movie spoilers, too)
    Hercules and the Amazon Women - This one is probably the best of the TV movies, although I do have some reservations about saying that. The story is a kind of predictable "treat women as equals" story with the Amazons. The problem I kind of have is that I think the early "Men disrespect women" segments that set up to the need for the guy's redemption might have gone a bit too far and became a bit uncomfortable for me. But, the story did have some good characters (I thought Hippolyta was done pretty well), and the story was done decently. It also didn't have any really annoying side characters, and herc/Iolaus were pretty good. The ending was kind of lame (and I'd question whether it could work, since nothing is stopping hera from possessing orcontrolling the Amazon's again) but overall it was decent entertainment. Some of the other movies had better plots, but I liked the good characters in this one the best.

    Hercules and the Lost Kingdom - This movie had a good overall plot, but the woman he travels with (named Deianeira, but not the same Deianeira Hercules eventually marries) was really annoying at times, to the point it got distracting. It felt like it was more of the writing's fault than the actresses fault, though. The movie did have some cool moments, like Hercules and Deianeira in the Sea Serpent's stomach. This movie was ok, but a bit annoying at times. Little did I know that the annoyance in this was nothing compared to the next TV Movie :wtf:

    Hercules and the Circle of Fire - This movie had a good plot, but was brought down by a spectacularly annoying child character/actor. Even for bad TV child characters, Zeus's little minion (whose name I can't remember and don't really care to look up) was really bad. The story of Hercules bringing fire back to the world after hera steals it is pretty good, and Deianeira (the one that becomes Herc's wife, not the one from the last episode) was actually a decent character. I'm also a bit iffy at the plot. Don't the greek gods need/want worship? You'd think Hera wiping out all the humans would be something no greek god, outside of Hades and possibly other greek death obsessed characters I don't know about, would want. I know that at this point the only greek gods we've seen/heard from are Zeus and hera, but just in the context of the mythology I'm kind of wondering why gods like, for example, Ares wouldn't object to having the humans they need for worship/to do the things that make them stronger killed because Hera was feeling particularly a-holeish. Also, hera has WAY too much power, but I've grown used to that element of Hercules. Overall, this was ok, but would have benefited from removing the unneeded child actor.

    Hercules in the Underworld - I feel like this one was pretty good with the plot, but not the strongest with the characters. Nessus was really annoying, and a bit too obvious a bad guy I think. The "Nurian maiden" was also kind of annoying, it seemed to just add some drama for Hercules. When Hercules actually got to Hades, it was pretty cool. I liked his interactions with Charon, and, while it looked kind of goofy, Cerberes was interesting. Hades...wasn't very impressive looking. I'm curious whether memory erasing is normal for the Elysian Fields, because if it is then that would make Iolaus a liar. At the end of the first episode of the series (The Wrong Path) Iolaus says he had talked to Deianeria and herc's kids while he was in what I guess was a semi-dead state. If Hades just erases everyone's memories when they die, they wouldn't have any message for Hercules. Also, I'm actually surprised that Hades controls the Elysian Fields. I thought he just controlled the bad part of the afterlife, although that was just kind of an assumption on my part. Overall this was pretty good, although a few annoying characters and Hercules/Nessus/Deianeria drama keeps it from being my favorite of the TV movies.

    I didn't watch Hercules in the Cave of the Minotaur, since I didn't feel like watching a movie that is primarily clips of the movies I'd already watched recently.

    Overall, the movies were an ok introduction to Hercules. Hercules was always pretty good (well, except maybe one or two moments in the first movie) and the stories, on their own, were usually pretty good, if sometimes not written as well as they could have been. Their were too many annoying characters in some of the movies, but I found something to like about all 4 of the movies I watched, and I didn't dislike any of them.

    So, then I went on to the first season of hercules. I'm three episodes in so far.

    The Wrong Path was a pretty good beginning. It was pretty dark when you think about it, although I like how they explained why Zeus didn't stop Hera without just saying it was another case of him being too scared of her (which would have ruined Zeus as a character if he had been too meek to save his grandchildren). Having Hera do it when he was distracted by a woman fit Zeus well, and doesn't make him seem like he just doesn't care about herc and his family. Hercules learned a decent lesson, although I think Herc gave up on his revenge maybe a bit too easily. I mean, he should focus on helping people, but letting Hera get away with murdering his family and only losing one temple seems like Hera got away very easily. Herc and Iolaus were both good in this, and I was disappointed to see that Iolaus wasn't joining Herc. I was a bit confused that Iolaus didn't even mention his own wife before going out to save the city, and now I'm wondering if she's just being quietly forgotten. I hope Iolaus comes back, I like the character and hercules could use a consistent companion. Overall, this was a pretty good first episode.

    Eye of the Beholder was also pretty good. The cyclops was done decently, and the story was entertaining. The toga salesman was decent, not great but better than he could have been. The stuff with the 50 daughters was pretty entertaining.

    The Road to Calydon was ok, but not much else. It was an acceptable adventure, but probably the weakest so far. I thought the blind seer was interesting, but the rest of the side characters were kind of bland. The winged creature was decent looking.

    So far, I'm enjoying Hercules: The Legendary Journeys. I like greek mythology, and I'm fine with goofiness in fantasy. Hercules is an entertaining character, and his fight scenes are done fairly well. I have the DVDs for the first two seasons of Hercules and the first two seasons of Xena. I'm going to wait until I finish the first season of Hercules before getting to Xena. I'll give my thoughts as I go in this thread. I'll probably end up getting more seasons of Hercules and Xena, although it will probably take me a decent amount of time to go through what I have.

    Also, I happened to pick up a book (The Further Adventures of Xena: Warrior Princess) for 50 cents a few days ago. I don't intend to read it anytime soon (since I'm sure I should watch a good chunk of the TV show first), but at that price it was worth getting. Plus, it has several familiar Star Trek writers involved with it, so whenever I do get to it I'm sure there will be at least a few good stories.
     
  2. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    I tried to do this several years ago, but I barely got through the first half of season 1. I suspect it's one of those shows that would eventually get better, but I just wasn't motivated to try.
     
  3. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I watched them both in the day. Xena eventually became this alternately brilliant, alternately ridiculous, tour de force where a show could be some of the most dramatic, heart-wrenching, mind-boggling, daring arc-based adult drama you've ever seen, and the following week be the silliest, lamest over-the-top sophomoric comedy ever.

    Herc was always just kinda dumb, sometimes stupid, occasionally childish, rarely anything that made you think. Unless it was a crossover with Xena's Callisto or Hope arcs, which were downright dire.

    Can ya tell I preferred Xena? I highly recommend it for serious fantasy fans. And lesbians.
     
  4. bbjegglebells

    bbjegglebells Admiral Admiral

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    Right here buddy.
    I watched both series on TV. Though I was a kid when I watched it, it was quite fun.

    Joxer the Mighty rules.
     
  5. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :adore: Karl Urban played Cupid in an episode.
     
  6. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Festival of Dionysus was a decent, but predictable, episode. It was a pretty standard "jealous prince trys to bring about his father's death to get the throne" story. The blind seer was around again, and he was ok, although I'm hoping we won't see him again, his gimmick has kind of run its course.
     
  7. wulfio

    wulfio Captain Captain

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    I recently just finished watching Hercules again. I have to say, I found it pretty comical. From Iolas kung fu, to Hercules words of wisdom, and in general the fight choreography, it was a barrel of laughs.

    Also, that muscle chicks blacksmithing outfit rocks. I`m pretty sure it`s in the 1st season so you`re in for a treat.

    I enjoyed the show, but I think the only thing that actually miffed me was how historically inaccurate it was. I know it`s a fictional show about a mythological hero. But something about seeing 14th century ship designs, and certain technologies kind of irked me.
     
  8. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When Hercules got shot by some Atlantis crystal energy weapon, and he's almost killed, I realized I was watching the weakest incarnation of the character to have ever been portrayed on television.
     
  9. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    One reason I have a hard time taking him seriously. :lol:
     
  10. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    My Herc/Xena timeline, detailing the historical people and events they met or mentioned, and the actual years they existed:
    http://www.inpayne.com/charts/xenachrt.jpg
    (Spoilers, yeah).
    By my reckoning, Xena lived between 1250BC when she met Ulysses, and 60AD when she met Boudicca. I'm trying to ignore the mention of Genghis Khan (1162-1227AD!) in The Debt.
     
  11. AgentCoop

    AgentCoop Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    I used to watch both shows religiously back in the day. I always liked Xena better, but Herc was pretty cool, too.
     
  12. bbjegglebells

    bbjegglebells Admiral Admiral

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    Right here buddy.
    ^That's pretty much how I feel about it.
     
  13. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    They were both pretty corny shows sometimes, but they never pretended to take themselves seriously. I imagine outtakes could get pretty bawdy.
     
  14. Sketcher

    Sketcher Commander Red Shirt

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    Apparently Orci and Kurtzman were showrunners on Hercules. Once I learned that, things about the show started to make a lot more sense...
     
  15. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Apparently, they weren't placed in charge of the show until later, sometime after Sorbo suffered a stroke. I wouldn't be surprised if the show goes down hill after that :lol: In the early seasons, I think it would be producer/co-creator Robert Tapert who was in charge.
     
  16. wulfio

    wulfio Captain Captain

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    thats pretty funny
     
  17. FarStrider

    FarStrider Commander Red Shirt

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    Didn't Karl also play Caesar in Xena?
     
  18. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
  19. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ares was a decent episode. I was glad to see a problem come up for Hercules that wasn't caused by Hera. I wasn't a huge fan of the focus on child actors, but they were ok. They could have been a lot worse. I am curious as to whether we'll ever see any of the gods (besides Zeus) in human form, or if its just peacock eyes and mounds of skulls for the next few seasons. It would be cool to see Hercules and ares square off in person eventually.

    I will say that something that stood out was that the female blacksmith had easily the most shameless costume I've seen yet, and the show hasn't exactly been reluctant to put the female actors in revealing clothes. I have no idea how they managed to get away with not having to pixelate or just remove the blacksmith whenever she turned around. It got me wondering if a show on a regular tv channel could get away with that nowadays. Its not an issue for me when it comes to enjoying the show, its just something I haven't really seen in TV hows I watch.
     
  20. Davros

    Davros Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    there was a groundhog day episode of Xena that was pretty funny.