Has star trek changed

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by starbuck, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    TMP can be a bit of a slog. I have the Director's Edition, and it makes the movie quite a bit more enjoyable, in my opinion.
     
  2. Danger Ace

    Danger Ace Commander Red Shirt

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    What follows is merely my opinion:

    Nemesis is the first and only movie I ever felt was so bad that I started laughing in the theater and couldn't stop. Gawd, that scene with a bloated, red-faced Riker toasting their dead (not really) comrade Lt. Data was cinematically pathetic (as we still had Data Gump). And Picard looked so frail and small onscreen. The Romulan council chamber looked like it was shot in a closet. After seven seasons they had no dramatic threads to mine ... they had to rip-off The Wrath of Kahn?!?!

    Star Trek IX was nothing more than a case of insurrectile dysfunction. It had a plot that would have made a mediocre-at-best television episode (not even a decent two-parter either). Paramount wanted a change-of-pace film to follow First Contact, well, they got what they asked for. Where First Contact was exciting, compelling and epic this one counter-punched with none of that.

    Generations was just a bad idea given to novice screenwriters to work out and they failed oh-so miserably. I swear the sole reason for this one was the top brass at Paramount wanting to divorce themselves from William Shatner. No passing of the torch - just dump that over-priced pain-in-the-ass. While it is the most watchable of the three discussed here it was still so much less than it should have been. And the mishandled death of Kirk is too painful to revisit. EVER!

    Again, my opinion. I respect the right and reality of others feeling differently.
     
  3. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Or a screensaver :).
     
  4. Infern0

    Infern0 Captain Captain

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    Why did it matter that they were older?

    I mean really I never can understand that attitude, I mean people get older, look at the real millitary, most of the commanding level officers are older.

    If we are that shallow that we need a "hot young cast" well cool, ST09 is for you I guess, for a few years at least until Karl Urban's hair starts graying (he's 40 now, not much of a shelf life), then we'll have to give him the chop and replace with Taylor Lautner.

    Simon Pegg is 43 and Balding, so better get him out the door before the next one.

    Mind you, some bird had to get her norks out in this one, and that never happened in the originals.

    Yes.

    Star Trek has changed.
     
  5. edshrinker

    edshrinker Ensign Red Shirt

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    \That said, while he is the best choice for Trek in principal, being a non-fan, as a filmmaker and producer I find a lot of his work leave much to be desired.[/QUOTE]

    WOW! Than I certainly look forward to your several successful TV series and feature films. They must be AMAZING! :guffaw:
     
  6. edshrinker

    edshrinker Ensign Red Shirt

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    That was harsh, InfernO. I am sorry. But you can't think upon rereading that it didn't sound a bit pretentious. I am sure you are talented. But "a lot to be desired" is quite a slam on a very successful writer/director/producer. Not liking his style and dismissing his talent - big difference.
     
  7. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, but "Norks" is funny.

    ETA: And TOS did pull out all the norks in its original run in the 60's. TOS created the side-boob shot!
     
  8. Danger Ace

    Danger Ace Commander Red Shirt

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    It doesn't and I didn't say it did.

    Riker being red-faced and bloated speaks more to things other than age. Such as, perhaps, a fondness for distilled or fermented spirits, but definately a lazy attitude regarding his big screen appearance.

    As for Picard, that had more to do with bad lighting and poor choice in camera setups and blocking. Patrick Stewart is still a fine actor and has been a commanding presence onscreen in other things since Nemesis.

    And what kind of drama or loss can the audience feel towards Data's "sacrifice" when they introduce his special-needs replacement earlier in the movie. This film was a poop-bag of cynical filmmaking for which they should all be ashamed.

    So my criticism is centered on things other than age and on things that easily could have been corrected. There was zero reason for Nemesis to be as incredibly bad as it was other than a clear-as-crystal lack of interest in producing a quality work.
     
  9. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Yep, and it happened because of three words: William Ware Theiss. :D
     
  10. Danger Ace

    Danger Ace Commander Red Shirt

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    And under the watchful eyes of the great Gene Roddenberry himself (may he rest-in-peace).
     
  11. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I don't need to be a director or producer (successful or otherwise) in order to have an opinion. Indeed, 90% of the posters on this very forum have no experience in professional filmmaking. Does that make their opinion less valid?
     
  12. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    He really had an eye for the ladies, and it paid off! :D
     
  13. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    [​IMG]

    And...Jonathan Frakes' age, health and appearance at the time Nemesis was filmed and Stewart's physical stature have to do with the greater film as a whole...how, again?

    Actors age. By the time the tenth movie (and the fourth one with the TNG cast) saw cameras roll, it had been fifteen years since the pilot for Next Gen and they - well, you probably guessed where I'm going with this -got older. Yes, Frakes gained some weight and got puffier. That's going to happen to quite a few of us. He was no longer as trim and fit as he had been during his thirties and the premiere season of the series, and Patrick Stewart aged fifteen years as well. He was already in his late forties when the show began and was approaching senior citizen status during Nemesis.

    To echo what somebody earlier in the thread said, we might as well go ahead and fire Simon Pegg, Chris Pine and Karl Urban now, because they're all just going to get older, wrinklier and slower if the new films are successful enough to keep going for a few more movies or even longer.

    There are a hundred very valid things to nitpick and even slam about Nemesis, but Will Riker's face and Patrick Stewart not sporting a strong Zapp Brannigan physique (when he's never been a large, burly actor or character and Picard is the age of 74 by that year in the timeline) shouldn't be two of them.
     
  14. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It is a well-known fact of astronomy that stars grow larger and redder as they age.
     
  15. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Lots of competent and entertaining actors and artists bloat up and change appearance as they age. Orson Welles. Brando. Have you seen Billy Joel lately?

    As long as Frakes successfully conveyed William T. Riker in his last film it shouldn't matter that he was older, red-faced and puffier. The problems with Nemesis stem from the script and directing, not how fat or frail a character appears.
     
  16. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    Heck, Dorn was the same age as Frakes, but he had at least kept himself trim and slim and looking good (check out the Dodge Dart commercial he's in.) Stewart was also trimmer than Frakes. It seems that Frakes didn't care because it was his last acting role and he wanted to be a director more, so he didn't put any effort into his appearance (and this despite the type of food that they were serving for the cast that was low-fat since Insurrection, IIRC.) That makes Frakes appear to by very lazy in contrast to Ricardo Montelban when he played Khan (who had kept himself in shape and was able to lift Walter Koneing) or even Samuel Jackson in Avengers, who looks like a man that's been in the military for years and who maintained a great build as per regulations. All told, I liked the movie (and still do) but I can agree with what you've said here, Danger Ace.
     
  17. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Frakes looked fine to me. Then again, I tend to have more realistic expectations when it comes to very mortal human beings playing immortal characters.
     
  18. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Umm, I'm fairly sure a wire was used, unless you really think that Ricardo Montalban was strong enough to lift a fully grown man in a spacesuit with one arm.
     
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Well, with muscles like his...
     
  20. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Montalban's physique was positively robauesque.