Has anyone else noticed the major plot flaw in TWOK?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Bry_Sinclair, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I've always felt it was entirely in character for the old-fashioned McCoy to call them elevators.
     
  2. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    As do I. And it's not as though it isn't clear what he's talking about.

    --Sran
     
  3. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    I removed one planet from one of these pictures. See how easy it is to notice the missing planet.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Yeah, right -- because we all know that Starfleet has never heard of computers and all their sensor analysis is done with the naked eye.

    Heck, even if that were true, astronomers have been detecting subtle changes between successive photographs for centuries. That's a keystone of observational astronomy, and it's how thousands of discoveries have been made. What may not be evident to the layperson would stick out like a sore thumb to any trained astronomer.
     
  5. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's more to spatial navigation than picking a star and counting the number of planets on the way in. It seems pretty obvious that when a starship plots a course to a planet, the procedure would likely include determining where in its orbit the planet is going to be at a given time so they can intercet. For example, when Sulu plots a course to a destinaton, he uses a set of coordinates. If nobody has been there before, they could just set a course to the solar system in general and then plot from there.

    However, since the Enterprise has been to the Ceti Alpha system, it would have been catalogued and very specific information should be in the Starfleet database. They would have enough information to determine the coordinates of each planet and the numbers would be the same no matter what angle you approach them from (so they wouldn't be counting planets as they approached). Reliant should get to where Ceti Alpha 6 was supposed to be and see that it's no longer there. To use a Star Wars example, when Han Solo came out of hyperspace at Alderaan, there was nothing left but fragments. However, his coordinates took him to where the planet should have been. That is pretty much how it should have worked for The Reliant.

    The story implication is that the explosion moved Ceti Alpha 5 into the exact orbit of Ceti Alpha 6. This is ridiculous. Adding to this, as stated upthread, there is no debris or any evidence that such a cataclysm has taken place. This is insane and almost inexcusable.

    I say "almost" because there only possible explanation I can think of is that Chekov plotted the course himself, mistakenly and/or subconsciously chosing Ceti Alpha 5. Human error, particularly in Chekov, is always possible. A ship coming out of warp at the proper coordinates might not be paying attention to the rest of the system. However, since this weak explanation was not in the script, it's still a pretty sizable hole.
     
  6. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    :lol:

    It's in my personal canon that the creature crawled out of his ear out of hunger.
     
  7. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    :rommie:

    --Sran
     
  8. solariabsg25

    solariabsg25 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A little harsh - after TWOK he became a well-rounded person, with his own friends, credit cars and keys... ;)
     
  9. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Not harsh at all. Chekov was by far the weakest link of that group. Whether he was getting zapped by a discharge from V'Ger or falling off of an aircraft carrier, he was always finding ways to get himself in trouble.

    --Sran
     
  10. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    And yet him and George still had to share Melllvar's fan-script...
     
  11. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think they ever really knew what to do with Sulu.

    Chekov was a much more interesting character. It seems like the writers all through the series and movies thought so too. That's the way it appeared to me anyway.

    Except for the pink schoolboy outfit in STFS and the TMP "torrrrrpeeeeeeeedoooooooes ... awaaaaaaaay!" line, that is. That was just goofy. :lol:
     
  12. solariabsg25

    solariabsg25 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Welshie!!!!!! :)

    Chekov was the O'Brien of TOS, constantly having the "he must suffer!" scripts written for him.

    Sulu on the other hand, he was a sponge for whatever cool hobby they thought they could saddle him with for a particular episode, only in order for it never to be mentioned again!

    Bearing in mind the decor of Kirk's apartment in TWOK, I think it was a missed opportunity to have Sulu give him a genuine 20th century antique firearm for his birthday!
     
  13. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    ^IIRC, Kirk willed several of his antique guns to Sulu following his death. It was discussed in the Crucible novel The Fire and the Rose.

    --Sran
     
  14. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And yet he survived it all! Even Scotty got killed, like, twice. You can't underestimate the value of having someone who's really lucky on your team.
     
  15. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    Scotty got killed too? I remember McCoy's death but
     
  16. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    He was killed by Nomad in The Changling.
     
  17. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    Right , I remebre now. Nomad surely made a mess. Wiped Uhura's memory and such.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^And disintegrated a near-record number of redshirts for a single episode -- as well as wiping out four billion lives in the Malurian system.
     
  19. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    That would be a tragedy if they were not redshirts, you know we never run out of those.

    That's just a statistic.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, I find that rather implausible.

    Starships are powerful machines - so powerful in fact that they render most of today's concepts of spaceflight irrelevant. I don't really see a starship helmsman bothering to calculate the exact coordinates needed for a planetary rendezvous beforehand, as he or she can do the necessary corrections in a matter of seconds after arrival anyway. A "conventional" spacecraft would be wasting fuel and time unless aiming very precisely; for a starship, wasting of fuel is something that only takes place at massively greater distances and speed differentials. If Sulu actually calculated the most energy-efficient way to enter the orbit of Boring XII, Kirk would chide him for being a showoff and for wasting valuable Starfleet time!

    Celestial mechanics is something only losers need bother with. A true starship flies against celestial mechanics and benefits enormously from that.

    Really, given the known capabilities of starships, I could very well see the proper procedure of entering a star system as being more like this:

    - Skipper calls "Helm, reduce speed" at a more or less random moment, as precision is unnecessary
    - Helm says "Aye, Sir!" and quite independently points the bow towards the local sight he expects the skipper wants to go to next
    - Skipper asks for habitable planets; Science Officer scans for such, completely ignoring all those planets that fail the most cursory initial scan, and reports the identity of the one planet found, her fingers hovering over the buttons she needs to establish what she knows the skipper is gonna ask next
    - Skipper says "Standard orbit around that one, Helm", and Helm complies
    - Skipper asks "Where's the city we needed to visit?" and the SO tells him
    - Skipper says "You're with me, let's beam down"
    - Science Officer leaves her instruments and makes a mental note to do a more detailed scan of the planet when and if she has time

    They're there to visit the city, not to map the local cloud forests or listen to possible secret Romulan communications or establish whether the local star is about to blow. They visit, and then they leave. Star systems really are a dime in a dozen, and if Starfleet wants to know more, they can always send the ship back.

    Timo Saloniemi