Harry Mudds fate: Cruel and unusual punishment?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by WesleysDisciple, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. WesleysDisciple

    WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Was Harry Mudds fate, Cruel and unussual?

    I KNOW That scene was meant to be comedy... And I Also know that Mudd was a bad guy...

    But I think that Kirk was being excessively cruel.
     
  2. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In the sense of what Mudd actually did? No. His buffoonery and the nature of the episode gloss over the fact that he pirated a Constitution Class starship and kidnapped 430 people.

    In the sense of that he does have rights and "Indefinite parole" is a gross violation, yes.


    Now you know who had cruel and unusual punishment? Cyrano Jones. Come on. What happened to that futuristic enlightenment. Some 20 years for transporting tribbles? Yes they are an ecological menace that could doom millions to starvation, but intent has to matter somewhat.

    I suppose Kirk knows that sooner or later, Jones will figure out a quicker way to clean up the tribbles.
     
  3. mach7

    mach7 Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, Harry's sentence was not unlimited, just until he was not an "irritant" anymore.

    As with Cyrano Jones, I imagine that Star Fleet would come in after and "clean up"
    Kirks ruling.

    Kirk is an idea man, he leaves the details to Star Fleet. ;-)
     
  4. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Commodore Commodore

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    If you count TAS:

    a) Mudd did get off the planet in relatively short order (although honestly I forget how)
    b) Jones did indeed figure out a quicker way... he stole a glommer from the Klingons!
     
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I know the ending of Tribbles is supposed to be a "funny", but I do wonder just what the cleanup strategy was to be. I mean, I assume step one is to cut off the food supply so the tribbles don't multiply, but does that mean they'll all die of starvation? 17.8 years of rotting tribble corpses? I assume at that point Mr. Lurry is just gonna give everyone a phaser set to dematerialize and the tribbles will be gone in hours just to avoid the smell.
     
  6. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    By the way, is "I, Mudd" a play on words for"I, Robot"?

    If it is...well....sorry. Captain Obvious I have never been. It took me about 10 years to figure out that Borg was derived from cyborg.
     
  7. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I almost started a thread about this a few days ago, but figured it was too obtuse to be of much interest. But since you bring it up...

    Suppose someone had inadvertently traveled with some alien spider in their luggage? Same punishment? I'd imagine that Court-Martial -like episode would be kind of dull, though. :lol:

    Also: twenty years? In a rehabilitation colony? :wtf:

    Aren't there any Star Trek punishments along the lines of, say, a years' probation?
     
  8. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    According to Kirk, though, rehab colonies are like resort colonies now. Unless that all went away when Dr. Adams was killed....
     
  9. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    From TAS: Mudd's Passion
    (Chapel tends to where Harry got hit by a rock)
    CHAPEL: A minor bruise, Captain. He'll live.
    KIRK: I thought we left you on the robot planet, Harry. Permanently.
    MUDD: Never underestimate the spirit of Harcourt Fenton Mudd. I borrowed a vehicle.
    SPOCK: Stole a spaceship.
    MUDD: And left to find haven on Ilyra Six. A charming planet, an innocent and friendly populace.
    KIRK: To whom you sold the Starfleet Space Academy. Harry.
    SPOCK: A fraud. But sold for enough credits to get to Sirius Nine.
    MUDD: Where I discovered a boon to humanoid life, a miracle love potion.
    KIRK: Which you sold to a thousand inhabitants, who immediately became ill from using it.
    MUDD: I hadn't counted on their unusual biochemistry. So, I did the logical thing. I left in haste.
    KIRK: And came here to swindle honest miners.
    MUDD: The love potion works, Captain. If you'll allow me to procure some from my ship
    (but they leave and activate the forcefield)


    Now, I don't know what spaceship would visit that planet with the androids. Of course, they had to have some spaceships since Norman left the planet and got on board the Enterprise.
     
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I thought I remember Mudd saying in "Mudd's Passion" he introduced gambling to androids and escaped in the ensuing confusion.
     
  11. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Khan had to make a come-back before Kirk understood how his arbitrary decisions weren't great ideas.
     
  12. MANT!

    MANT! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    though Non- canon, the novel Mudd's Angels had Harry banished from the Galaxy for eternity..
     
  13. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^Mudd's Angels contains three stories: adaptations of Mudd's Women and I, Mudd and the stry you mention called The Business, As Usual, During Altercations, which I just read a synopsis of. Profoundly stupid. :)
     
  14. WesleysDisciple

    WesleysDisciple Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    on Khan... if Kirk reported it to starfleet stranding khan on the planet... even if they accepted, that it was an appropiate fate, and that Kirk HAD given Khan a choice... I Think they'd have kept half an eye on the planet, to be ready to help in true calamnitys, like an unexpected disease breakout... and definitely would have sent, albeit well armed and escorted medical relief if they saw the planet explode, and likely relocate them after that with the federations sincere apolagys.
     
  15. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    ^^ Perhaps one or several of the bureaucrats in Starfleet decided to sweep the whole incident under a rug. In "Space Seed" we saw some admiration for this 20th Century dictator expressed by Scotty, not to mention the historic interest to research this period of time.

    So some people would have been keen to travel to Ceti Alpha V and by doing so would have inevitably provided Khan with a means of escape.

    At the end of the episode Kirk does not suggest that he will check their progress:

    SPOCK: It would be interesting, Captain, to return to that world in a hundred years and to learn what crop has sprung from the seed you planted today.
    KIRK: Yes, Mister Spock, it would indeed.

    (OTOH the planet has been cartographed and examined so it stands to reason that sooner or later someone would have accidentally visited the planet, especially since it is Class M)

    Bob
     
  16. Andrew_Kearley

    Andrew_Kearley Captain Captain

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    More likely that both are derived from "I, Claudius".
     
  17. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Given that "I, Robot" is a story about a robot and "I, Mudd" is about robots, my money is on that connection.
     
  18. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    About "Space Seed", I kind of wondered why no one knew about Khan's crew left on Ceti Alpha V. I mean, McGivers being sentenced to stay with Khan would've had to be in some report Kirk sent back, right? Wouldn't her family or something probably ask for someone to go in and check up on her occasionally? Or try to fight Kirk's decision?

    Unless she had no family.
     
  19. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I can only presume McGivers signed some form of waiver or recorded a message for her relatives, if she had any.

    Frankly, I don't no how the Federation ensures that planets considered off-limits are not visited by traders or curious adventurers. We only got a hint in "Wink of an Eye":

    KIRK: If I sent you to Scalos, you'd undoubtedly play the same trick on the next spaceship that passed by.
    DEELA: There won't be any others. You'll warn them. Your federation will quarantine the entire area.
    KIRK: Yes, I suppose it would.


    The only practical way I could think of would be the deployment of surveillance satellites.

    Bob
     
  20. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk said something about putting up a warning beacon near the planet in "Plato's Stepchildren".

    Wonder why he didn't do so for Ceti Alpha V.

    Of course, the bigger question in WoK was how Chekov could no longer count to 6 properly.
     

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