Harry Kim: Hero or Zero?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Melakon, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    OOPS WRONG FORUM, MODS PLEASE MOVE!

    It would help if I had the series collection, but I only have about a dozen episodes and hazy memories to draw from for discussion. Maybe I should make the series collection my next goal for a few months.

    Seven years feels like a long time as an ensign, but I've never been in the military and don't know what's normal for an ambitious career minded officer, which Harry seems to be. He's intelligent and usually competent in his job. On occasion he has moments of genius in finding a solution to a problem. He's musically talented. He doesn't choose his friends based on what people tell him. On first meetings, he probably looks exactly like the image Starfleet wants to promote.

    But like all potential heroes, Harry has flaws. And they all seem to be character personality flaws. He's homesick. Why the hell did he enlist? When he makes a mistake, he tortures himself with criticism for being such a dunderhead. He sometimes thinks with his gonads, but most of us are likely guilty of that.

    It seems Harry gets a lot of flak for some of this in fandom, though many characters have good and bad traits. I guess some of the flak could be from people who don't like Garrett Wang for whatever reason, but that can't account for all of it.
     
  2. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    I don't think there was much leadership material in the character. Seven years as an ensign feels about right to me.

    Garrett might have played him differently but I can't imagine what Wil Weaton would have done to do Wesley better... although by the series' end, Wes was much more agreeable. The Game, The First Duty, Parallels, and Journey's End were all great Wesley appearances.

    Perhaps that was the in-joke about Harry all along; way too green about the gills.
     
  3. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    My apologies for posting in DS9 forum, I've sent mod notice. Was watching a Voyager episode, paused to check forums, and failed miserably.
     
  4. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

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    If Janeway promotes EVERYBODY on Voyager, isn't that pretty much the same as promoting no one?

    If they spent 70 years in the DQ and she made everybody a commander, somebody would still have to be scrubbing the plasma manifolds. I know she promoted Tuvok, but he might have been due for one before they left the AQ. For all we know Harry jumped straight to lieutenant or lt. commander upon their return due to his experiences out there.
     
  5. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They were going for the eager young space novice with the character concept, that much was obvious. Beyond that he just flopped as a character. His personality was wooden and usually boiled down to how homesick he was. He was like anti-sexual in that not only does he have to screw up his own blundering attempts in the most facepalming ways, but he has to actively cockblock everyone else in the vicinity. The first three seasons he was fairly wooden and bland with his attempted role as the smart guy. Especially when you compare him to Spock, Data or Dax. By Season 4, they just gave up on it and Seven got the role as the smart one who solves all the problems. At which point he basically faded to a glorified extra.

    As for his rank? Well I always thought it was somewhat funny that from the get go, the Academy washout with huge anger management problems, a glorified mechanic in a terrorist organization, got a higher rank handed to her off the bat. Paris did too, but even when he was demoted for... hijacking a shuttle and launching a terrorist attack(no big deal, right?), he earned his rank back more quickly. Not to mention that Nog... the guy who was bringing Kim his drink when Voyager launched, made lieutenant more quickly! :p Really though, he should've been promoted in Endgame once they got home... of course that would require the show to have had ANY sort of epilogue instead of "oh we're home, fade to black."

    Apparently Garrett Wang had a lot of personal issues on the set, which may very well have factored in. It was pretty much a known fact that they were going to get rid of him in Scorpion when Seven came along, but hey... some fangirl was apparently editor that 50 sexiest men list he got included on and he got a reprieve. Personally I think the series would've been better off with Kes instead of Ensign Extra, but hey.
     
  6. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    You nailed it right here. He's Porky Pig in Duck Dodgers in the 24th and a Half Century! It all makes sense. So Buster Kincaid wasn't much of a stretch for Harry.

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqAUiUDyFlY[/yt]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqAUiUDyFlY
     
  7. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Harry Kim.

    From Zero to Zero. :)
     
  8. Captain McBain

    Captain McBain Captain Captain

    Am I the only Star Trek fan who doesn't dislike Harry Kim? True, I don't exactly love the character, but there are definitely worse ones, at least in my demented mind.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And in just 7 years!

    If not for Caretaker, Voyager and Harry would have most probably been stationed at DS9, and spent his spare time crying into his synthohol at Quarks bar.

    Just imagine all the woman of Deep Space Nine who could have shot him down, or ignored him if the timeline hadn't gone so off kilter?
     
  10. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He was fresh out of the Academy and in an Operations uniform..so it was likely he would spend at least 5+years as an Ensign. He really didn't do much that garnered a big time promotion. I guess towards the end maybe, when he started taking over the night shift on the bridge.:shrug:
     
  11. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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  12. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

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    I don't exactly dislike him. There's nothing to dislike about him. Unfortunately, there's nothing to like about him either. I have the exact same feelings for Harry Kim as I have for Golwat, Mulcahey, Ashmore, or a phase inverter.
     
  13. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

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    Got no dislike for Harry, but he is bland. But I'd certainly rather watch him on screen than Vic Fontaine or Brunt.
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well I always thought he was cute, sweet and a little dorky. Now if he was my boyfriend I would have secretly airlocked that clarinet but otherwise.. I'll take him over Tom Paris any day.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Clarinets aren't sexy?
     
  16. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But isn't Harry just so cute when he sticks that long, cylindrical... flute.. between his lips and blows for all he's worth?
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Clarinets are NOT sexy.

    Getting that trying so very very hard look as you scrunch your brow and blow is NOT sexy.

    Looking like you should be in some kind of Narnia musical is NOT sexy.
     
  18. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    ^^ which is ironic, considering his stay on the show hinged on the astronomical timing of being voted as one the The Sexiest People!! ;)
     
  19. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Harry Kim's first command: "Nightingale"

    James T. Kirk's first command: "Star Trek"

    I didn't dislike Harry, he was completely inoffensive. But the guy had zero command potential. Ensign for a reason.
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wouldn't exactly call ST09 evidence of Kirk's command abilities. Leadership potential perhaps, but that movie(and the Nightingale episode too) just demonstrate why you don't put someone with ZERO field experience in charge no matter their potential.