Harbinger

Discussion in 'Enterprise' started by Delta Vega, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Good episode for me on a couple of levels

    Trip finally stops pissing about and nails T`Pol :techman:

    Malcolm finally gets it on with Hayes in a rip roaring punch up :eek:

    But the end scene puzzles me.

    What does the Transdimensional being say to Archer ?

    Cant really make it out no matter how many times I run it back and replay it.

    Something along the lines of "When the Xindi destroy Earth my people will be................"

    Well ?
     
  2. LeadHead

    LeadHead Director of Comedy Premium Member

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    The alien says that "When the Xindi destroy Earth, my people will prevail..." Meaning that it'll be a win for his people, foreshadowing later events in the season.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Rosebud!"
     
  4. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, I knew that his line of dialogue foretold later events in the series.

    "......prevail." ?

    OK, I thought maybe ".......be ready." but as I say, I couldnt make it out.
     
  5. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    :)
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I honesty thought the Malcolm/Hayes storyline was going to end in them doing something other than fighting. I wonder if it was even considered, or subtext added by the actors, or complete fluke that their tension came across.... differently.
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Stephen Culp just makes it so :adore:
     
  8. jespah

    jespah Commodore Commodore

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  9. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think it was the other way around. :)

    Ah, the Production Notes. Brings back pleasant memories. They used to post them on the official site in real time which meant 4 or 5 weeks before we actually saw the episode.

    And as can be seen from the notes, with respect to Hayes and Malcolm, the only subtext was in the eyes of the beholders.
     
  10. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I really liked this episode The Malcolm Hayes storyline with Archer telling them to stop fighting and they're acting like Five year olds.:rommie:I also liked Trip&T'Pol's storyline in this episode.Trip wasn't too happy about all the engine damage he was going to have repair because of what Hayes and Reed to stop the alien from trying to destroy the Enterprise.
     
  11. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There is just no way that Malcolm should have been able to keep up with Hayes.

    The scene with Trip and T'Pol was perfect until they had to show off T'pol's buttcrack.
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What! Her buttcrack is beautiful.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2014
  13. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    :lol::lol::lol:

    I can't say I disagree there...

    Here are my thoughts on Harbinger:

    One of my favorites and one of Enterprise's most controversial I guess. They screwed the pooch twice in this one I think.

    Let's start with Malcolm going at it with Major Hayes..One of the reason's I didn't care for Malcolm that much. What a cry baby whiner. They bicker back and fourth about the need and when to hold training. Did I mention Malcolm was a whiner? essshhh, I mean get over it already. Then they fight, that where they blew it. They completely diminished the need for the MACO's when Malcolm got the better of Hayes. Hayes was brought onto Enterprise to give them and expertise they didn't have. Malcolm was the "weapons/armory" officer...Star Fleet Officer, the equivalent to a "Gun Boss" or "Weapons Officer" on a navy ship. Major Hayes was the equivalent to a Marine Gunny Sergent. No way in hell is a gunny getting his ### kicked by anyone, let alone a fly boy. Just not going to happen. That was the writers chance to slap Malcolm right where he needed it and for Malcolm to finally bite the bullet and see the need for the MACO's. ?

    Then there is T'Pol and Trip. From the MACO babes attraction to Trip, T'Pol's obvious jealousy as a result of it. Really good stuff there. I really enjoyed seeing T'Pol loosing her concentration and getting clocked in training and also enjoyed T'Pol "straightening" MACO babe out in her quarters. T'Pol's quarters with Trip was absolutely classic.

    Let me digress for those that might not remember:

    TUCKER: Between all this training and the extra shifts in Engineering, I've been looking forward to this all day.
    T'POL: Sit up.
    TUCKER: You aren't saying much tonight. Don't tell me you're still upset about me and Amanda.
    T'POL: I'm not upset.
    TUCKER: It sure sounds like it.
    T'POL: You're mistaken.
    TUCKER: Why would a few neuro-pressure sessions between me and a MACO be such a big deal? Unless.
    T'POL: Unless what?
    TUCKER: Unless you're a little jealous.
    T'POL: I don't experience jealousy.
    TUCKER: You're doing a pretty fair imitation of it.
    T'POL: I am not, in any way, jealous of you and Corporal Cole.
    TUCKER: You know, your voice is tensing up. It's a dead giveaway.
    T'POL: I didn't know you were an expert in vocal inflections.
    TUCKER: I don't need to be an expert to read you. Come on, admit it. You're a little jealous.
    T'POL: You're implying that I'm attracted to you.
    TUCKER: That kind of goes along with the assumption, doesn't it?
    T'POL: I think you're mistaken about who's attracted to whom.
    TUCKER: Are you saying I'm attracted to you?
    T'POL: I don't need to say it. You already have.
    TUCKER: I don't remember that conversation.
    T'POL: It wasn't you, it was your clone. Sim told me.
    TUCKER: Sim?
    T'POL: He said he had feelings for me.
    TUCKER: He told you that.
    T'POL: Standing right there.
    TUCKER: What the hell was he doing in your room?
    T'POL: Your voice is tensing up.
    TUCKER: Oh, now you're the vocal expert.
    T'POL: I don't need to be an expert to read you.
    TUCKER: I can't believe this. I'm jealous of myself?
    T'POL: You're jealous?
    TUCKER: No, absolutely not. Okay, maybe. Maybe I am, a little.
    T'POL: Which would mean you're attracted to me. It goes with the assumption.
    TUCKER: What just happened here? Did we? Are we?
    (she kisses him, then completely disrobes)

    [​IMG]

    and then some more great stuff in the mess hall:

    TUCKER: Morning.
    T'POL: Commander.
    TUCKER: Coffee, strong. Some night.
    T'POL: Eventful.
    TUCKER: I don't know who did more damage to the engine, the alien or Malcolm.
    T'POL: How long before we can get underway?
    TUCKER: Another day at least. I guess we should talk about what happened last night.
    T'POL: I've been briefed on the situation.
    TUCKER: Well, I was referring to what happened between us, in your quarters. I guess I'll go first. Actually, why don't you go first?
    T'POL: I suppose I should thank you.
    TUCKER: No need to thank me.
    T'POL: For facilitating my exploration of human sexuality.
    TUCKER: I'm not sure I follow.
    T'POL: It's one of the many aspects of your species which I've been meaning to explore since I left the High Command.
    TUCKER: Sounds like you're saying last night was some kind of experiment.
    T'POL: I wouldn't use that term.
    TUCKER: But that's the general idea.
    T'POL: Are you getting emotional?
    TUCKER: No, I'm not getting emotional. I just don't like being compared to a lab rat.
    T'POL: I'm sorry if I offended you.
    TUCKER: Forget it. I'd appreciate it if we could keep this between us. In fact, we probably should forget it ever happened.
    T'POL: Agreed.
    TUCKER: Doesn't mean we can't keep doing the neuro-pressure though.

    [​IMG]

    Where I have a hard time: (she kisses him, then completely disrobes)... T'Pol is just plain H-O-T HOT and I most certainly enjoyed the "eyeball liberty" as we older guys say in the Navy. But it was not needed. Everything leading up to that moment was perfect with regard to Trip and T'Pol and then they go too far. It could have been so much "classier". Here we are finally seeing T'Pol open up and the writers think they need to, as Kate would say, "circumb to the lowest common denominator". WHY? That's the only part in Enterprise that I felt a little weird watching it with my kids....disappointed I guess.

    So while this was one of my favorite episodes, it does not make my top 5 because I think they missed the boat twice.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2014
  14. BruntFCA

    BruntFCA Commander Red Shirt

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    ^In fairness to the writers I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it was UPN that told them to go that far.
     
  15. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If you were lucky enough (actually unlucky) to be in certain markets like me (Dallas-Ft Worth). And other conservative markets. That scene was cut.
    And that may have been T'Pol's butt but it wasn't Jolene's unfortunately. They used a body double. From what I've seen from other sources. It's much nicer.
     
  16. Delta Vega

    Delta Vega Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    T`Pols (or the body doubles) buttcrack was magnificent.

    Back to the subject of Reid vs Hayes, I also puzzled as to why a full time Marine would get his arse kicked by a glorified gun master.

    Maybe against the grain, but I like Malcolm and his whining and weirdness, I think Keating captured him very well, but I think that beating up Hayes, or even holding his own against him, was a step too far.
     
  17. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That wouldn't surprise me either.

    Wow, I'm a huge T'Pol/Enterprise fan and I didn't know that. Can you provide a source?

    Personally I thought he took the whining to far. I don't think it was Dominick's fault, I think he was written that way. Hayes could have killed Reed in that fight and I would have been happy.
     
  18. jespah

    jespah Commodore Commodore

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    I like both Reed and Hayes, but the whining was too much. I really wanted to see more subtext to it, and I don't mean slash. Rather, that maybe Reed was worried for his job. Or that could have introduced the bit with Harris and the Section, with Reed just being used to being paranoid, and seeing a conspiracy around every corner because he'd been trained to do so.

    Instead, he just came across as a toddler unwilling to share his toys with the new kid.
     
  19. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yup, kind of like Neelix whining about Tom and Kes
     
  20. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The bit about the body double is (a kind of) fanon as far as I know, started right here by Trek insider, Morpheus, who posted at the time that it wasn't Jolene. However, in an interview in Maxim or that other magazine that wasn't Maxim, that it was her. To my knowledge, no one who was on the set at the time has confirmed that it was a double.