Happy 19th Birthday, Star Trek Generations!

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by cooleddie74, Nov 18, 2013.

  1. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    Oh, I'm sure you could pull it off. Doesn't mean a Kirk vs. Picard battle would have all that made much sense nor would it have been very popular. And knowing how many Hollywood writers pen action scenes and scenarios it probably would have been dumber than a Paris Hilton lecture on quantum mechanics.

    Mind you, we're talking about a movie where a whirling, swirling energy ribbon contains each individual person's idea of paradise and it can destroy a vessel that gets too close, but organic material like bodies are absorbed into it in one intact piece....but I digress.

    I think the way they actually pulled it off was adequate and entertaining if very rushed. The whole Kirk-Picard Nexus sequence followed by the final confrontation with Soran happened so quickly that you didn't get enough time to enjoy the captains of the two different eras and series getting to spend time trading ideas and experiences. Whether you did or didn't like how Kirk eventually dies at the end of the film the entire Kirk-Picard section of the film felt too sped up after all those years of wanting and wondering and wishing that our two favorite Starfleet captains would eventually find some way to join forces.
     
  2. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I remember hearing Braga say that and thinking, "Gosh, Brannon, if only you had been in a position to have done something about it." :)

    Of course, the way the captains meet is far from the film's only problem. The biggest poblem of the entire film -- and the entire story falls apart as a result -- is that the character setups completely contradict the payoffs. I'm brought this up in other threads. The beginning of the film sets up Kirk's greatest wish as getting out of retirement and back into the action; then he gets into the Nexus, which gives him his greatest wish, which is... a quiet retirement? Huh? Picard, who has been thinking about the life he sacrificed by being a starship captain, very quickly shakes off the temptations of the Nexus and goes to convince Kirk to go back with him. The way Moore and Braga set up the story and the characters, it should be Kirk convincing Picard to go back, not the other way around. The payoff is the exact opposite of the setup. This is basic writing 101 stuff.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  3. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Veering offtopif for a moment, the excuse to get Nimoy to the JJ timeline in 2009 was cringy too, and also fubared the entire plot of that movie.

    But the nexus was worse. No, Nexus-Guinan was worse. No, Picard crying like a schoolgirl was worse. No, the emotion chip subplot was worse. No, the sfx shot of the klingon ship exploding was -aaaagh wat I am I doing to myself?
     
  4. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    Riker also did his "lean" in the movie. Clearly the work of History's Greatest Monster.
     
  5. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Eh? The plot of Abrams's movie was that an alternate universe was created because of the actions of Spock Prime. How is that 'fubared?"
     
  6. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    Yeah, really.

    Spock Prime from the classic Trek timeline inadvertently helped create the Abramsverse while trying to stop the supernova shockwave. It's no different from past alterations of history except that the Abrams timeline persists and we continue to follow the events within it.

    Not seeing the problem other than "convenient excuse to have Leonard Nimoy in the last two films to get more butts in the seats," but again - why is that a problem? Spock Prime helps tie the two timelines and realities together. He's a welcome facet of and addition to the new films.
     
  7. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    That's exactly the problem. The same mentality that made them bring Shatner to Generations, the thinking a 'new' movie (or generation) cannot hold its own in the ticket market.

    In the JJ's case, an entire alt-universe had to be created in order to allow 80-year old Nimoy in, bringing the awful Nero and his supernova into the plot with it.

    But I confess to be torn between these points, I really am a fan of Nimoy and Shatner and liked to see them both in these otherwise 'meh' movies.
     
  8. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

    Joined:
    May 12, 2001
    Location:
    Peach Wookiee
    I like seeing Nimoy and in the grand scheme of Trek, his coming to the new timeline makes sense.
     
  9. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    Of course it makes sense. At least inasmuch as pretty much anything in the Trek universe makes sense, yeah. He comes from the original timeline and had failed to prevent the destruction of Romulus. The Red Matter black hole sucks him inside and deposits him 129 years into the past, right into an altered history. Spock Prime is our connection to classic Trek and the universe we watched unfold for almost forty years and he's the evidence that the old timeline still exists.

    Our revered Trek Classic didn't die, they're just not telling new, filmed stories in it.
     
  10. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    Which means that it's dead.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    Since JJ Abrams didn't break into my house and steal my collection of DVD's and Blu-ray's, it's still alive to me. :shrug:
     
  12. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    I still have the pictures and videos of grandma and grandpa, but they are not around anymore for new pictures and videos, because they are dead.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    We're not talking about people we're talking about movies and TV shows. Jesus Christ, some people will take things to the extreme just to win a point on the fucking internet.

    It's really kind of sad.
     
  14. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2009
    The point is, if you don't get anything new, it's dead.

    MacGyver is dead. Magnum is dead. Babylon 5 is dead. Etc... Sure, you have the DVDs, but it's over.
     
  15. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    There are 736 episodes and films of Prime Trek in existence as opposed to 2 movies of Abramsverse Trek. They're part of the canon and will continue to be sold and marketed ad infinitum, especially as the half-century mark of "The Cage" and TOS approach. Even Abrams and his team said that their new timeline and reality runs parallel to the old one and that Prime Trek still exists in its own continuum.

    Classic Trek's not dead, not in that sense you mean.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Shouldn't this be a memorial thread?
     
  17. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Location:
    The Warped Sector of the Demented Quadrant
    I hope not. I'd rather it didn't.

    Anyways, Generations is a pretty good film in spite of its logical loopholes and flaws and it marked a moment in Trek history we probably won't see the likes of again. 1994-96 was arguably the stratospheric peak of Star Trek as a national and global entertainment franchise when you could get away with having three different big-budget TV series either going off the air, in full swing or about to begin and two major films transitioning from the classic TOS characters to the Next Gen era of the 24th century. Trek was everywhere back then, even moreso than it has been during the past two Abrams movie promotional blitzes.

    It was the last Trek that didn't have major plot details spoiled for millions around the world by the Internet (you can thank tabloid magazines , loose lips and press leaks for that) and one of the last times that Trek was truly a major box office and cultural event. Warts and all, it's an entertaining popcorn flick with some terrific special effects and memorable, meaningful scenes and sometimes that's all you need from a movie to have it be worthwhile.
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    MacGuyver, Magnum and B5 don't still have monthly novels continuing their plotlines long beyond the TV shows.
     
  19. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Location:
    Erie, PA, USA
    Nothing ever truly dies as long as there is public interest in it.
     
  20. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    I believe the exact quote is:

    "He's really not dead, as long as we remember him."