Green Arrow (CW)

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Jetfire, Jan 13, 2012.

  1. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    I've watched the finale 3 times over the last two days and I can't remember the last time I ever did that.

    Not a lot to add to what everyone else has posted, but this series has continually impressed, and I look forward to season 2.
     
  2. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Moira knows that Oliver is hoodie. Their dialogue prior to her call for evacuation makes no sense otherwise.

    Oliver should have wondered who tried to kill Malcolm Merlyn. And when he does he should realize that Walter's survival as a hostage proved that Moira was being coerced, making her the prime suspect as Merlyn's would-be assassin.

    (Walter's certainty that Moira kidnapped him is irrational but the character is from another series and doesn't understand these things.)

    Merlyn is established as maniacally vengeful meaning that all the Queens are his targets. Thea wanders about aimlessly and cluelessly and shouldn't last long, which should give Moira's speech about sacrificing her family some heavy weight.

    But the thing about this exciting climax is that Oliver has achieved his goal. Why would he continue to be Green Arrow, especially since he hasn't assumed the identity at all?
     
  3. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    When Oliver talked to Moira about what happened after the Queen's Gambit sank he kinda forgot to mention that Robert didn't just sacrifice himself, he murdered a man in cold blood to give his son a better chance to survive. That was hardly heroic, Robert was a bastard and I'm not sure why Oliver thinks he's an example of doing the right thing, the only reason he didn't kill more people is because there was no other non-Olivers on the raft.

    Robert pulled the trigger, Moira did the right thing (even if it was really late) and gave people a chance despite doing so would endanger herself and her children, she's the parent who Oliver should look up to.
     
  4. Ayelbourne

    Ayelbourne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Most likely, he'll go on a guilt trip on account of having failed the Glades and Tommy. Then the vigilante life will be his way of trying to redeem himself.
     
  5. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    I disagree. Moira knows that Oliver was tied to a chair listening as she admitted everything to The Hood. The conversation makes sense, Moira assuming that Ollie confronted Malcolm as Oliver and challenged him about what he had heard Moira admit.

    Agree with completely.

    Merlyn has Ollie in a strangle hold at the end, and states that his sister and mother will be killed shortly after. Merlyn isn't talking about the Glades, he is talking about murdering them himself. The danger that the entire family is in is evident.

    The theme is that Merlyn had always been winning because Ollie didn't know what he was fighting for. At the end, Ollie thanks Merlyn for showing him what he is fighting for. Ollie actually has more reason to go on now, he is fighting for something rather than against a nebulous unknown something.
     
  6. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Mod Awakens Moderator

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    I don't have much to add that hasn't already been mentioned, except to say that this was a fantastic season finale worthy of one of my (surprisingly) favorite shows. I wasn't expecting much from this series before it premiered, but it's been great so far.

    The second device destroying half the Glades, and the death of Tommy took me by surprise and should set up some interesting developments for Season Two. Loved the fight choreography and the Live Free or Die Hard way Ollie stabbed Merlyn. The earthquake scenes were epic in scope. I hope they don't do a time leap and give us something of a smaller scale No Man's Land story next season.
     
  7. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This is responding to stj and LaxScrutiny but since LaxScrutiny quoted stj, I'll try to keep the thoughts a little more consolidated using his post.

    I would agree that I think Oliver now knows enough to know that Walter was abducted because he got too close. But after a fashion, he knew that from about the mid season point when Felicity joined the team.

    After that point, I guess the main question up until the second to the last few episodes for Ollie was: was Moira a willing party to Merlyn's plans.

    I'd really disagree that Moira or anyone outside of "Green Arrow Cave Crew", Tommy and MAYBE Detective Lance know or think Ollie is Green Arrow.

    Moira as Lax suggested, I believe Moira thought Ollie was taking things into his own hands and doing something. She might have feared Ollie himself making the press conference she did and she may have did that to protect him thinking he was going to do something similar. She knew Ollie knew a lot, but she really didn't know how much he knew.

    Agree with completely.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think Ollie has quite pieced that together yet. He may be thinking that real strongly AFTER the news conference, but before that, I think its more like he thought it was Deadshot. After finding out Malcolm Merlyn was the Black Archer (aka Merlyn) he probably then thought it was probably thought it was Frank Chen.

    Merlyn has Ollie in a strangle hold at the end, and states that his sister and mother will be killed shortly after. Merlyn isn't talking about the Glades, he is talking about murdering them himself. The danger that the entire family is in is evident.[/QUOTE]

    Like in the comics, I frankly still get the vibe even as Ollie leaves Malcolm for dead that there is a great respect and fear of each other.

    Keep in mind, Green Arrow and Merlyn have a relationship not unlike Batman and Ra's al Ghul. In Arrow, they've fostered this relationship. Up until a few episodes ago, both Malcolm and Ollie thought of each other as "virtual playboy millionaires" (I say virtually, because Malcolm is less of a playboy, but I hope you get my drift). As soon as each other realized how cut throat deadly the other was, you could seen an instant bond boone between them where they both mutually respected and feared each other. It all but makes for the perfect arch enemy.

    Even as Ollie was hung in Merlyn Tower, Malcolm didn't want him dead, he wanted him to be on his side; but didn't have time to convince him that he was on the wrong side just then.

    I don't think he'll be as "forgiving" later, but I don't think he'll be out for blood either.

    The theme is that Merlyn had always been winning because Ollie didn't know what he was fighting for. At the end, Ollie thanks Merlyn for showing him what he is fighting for. Ollie actually has more reason to go on now, he is fighting for something rather than against a nebulous unknown something.[/QUOTE]

    That's just it, he didn't accomplish his goals and in the midsts of fighting for his goals, some things changed forever.
     
  8. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wow that came out more disjointed then I had hoped --- I may have to go back when I have more time and re-edit it for quote clarity! >.<
     
  9. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As to whether Moira has deduced that Oliver is hoodie, yes it's technically possible that Moira could have thought Oliver confronted Malcolm in his own person. It's not plausible to me that she would react so calmly to the news her son confronted the villain. Or accept so readily that he got away with it either. Maybe they just muffed her reaction a little in their haste to exposit and move on?

    As to why Oliver would continue as hoodie. Merlyn has lost his empire, which means he's lost practically all his power. As for the rest of Merlyn's organization, publishing the book would be more effective now that piles of rubble make it believable evidence. The notion that hoodie can chase Merlyn the Moneyless better than the police tasks willing suspension of disbelief as much as the unfailing abilty of bullets to miss. On the other hand, he gets Laurel if he stays home at nights. (And I do hope that Laurel doesn't suddenly develop a fidelity to Tommy's corpse she didn't feel for the man.)
     
  10. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Wow, great finale. I thought they did a great job of giving us closure, but at the same time leaving plenty of stuff open for the next season. For me the biggest shocks were Moira's press conference and arrest and Tommy's death. I figured there was a chance someone would die, but I didn't think it would be Tommy. I was also rather shocked by Fyers death on the island, I expected the stuff with him to go on longer. I did not expect the second machine either, but I thought that was a great shock to end the season on. I really hope we pick right up there, at least at first. I'm really interested to see the immediate fallout of everything that happened.
    I'm definitely exc
     
  11. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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  12. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Admiral

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  13. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    If there is it would motivate me to buy the season on Blu-ray even more.
     
  14. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Arrow is doomed. :guffaw:

    Seriously, it's great to see Summer Glau working on a show I like.
     
  15. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Awesome news. Arrow gets some good guest stars for sure.
     
  16. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Add Jewel too, please.
     
  17. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    Jewel is guesting on The Killing.
     
  18. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    From the link:

     
  19. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe this is her big break. Chyler Leigh finally made it with Grey's Anatomy.
     
  20. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I finally dove into the series a few days ago and am addicted. I've already finished more than half the season, and can't wait for October 9th and Season 2 to get here.