Great new TMP pics!

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Mytran, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    As has been previously mentioned on this board, Roddenberry.com do a weekly podcast of Star Trek reviews and they also have a "discovered documents" section where previously unpublished material is released. This week they have a lot of TMP photos, contributed by someone who worked on the actual set! They are definitely worth a look:

    http://missionlogpodcast.com/discovereddocuments/091/
     
  2. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    WOW! This is fascinating behind behind-the-scenes stuff. :eek:

    I find the unobstructed view of the spacedock wall painting (backdrop for the recreation room crew assembly scene) interesting although it unfortunately has many issues. :techman:

    Here is Andrew Probert's original sketch for comparison:

    [​IMG]

    Bob
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That huge backdrop painting of the nacelle is amazing.
     
  4. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Indeed! I had no idea til I saw these pics that it was a BACKDROP painting, I just assumed it had been matted in like in the TV series. Amazing
     
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing much new in those photos, but that document about Spock's "Trial" is fascinating. It would have been difficult to pull of as a filmed sequence, but the literal "deviation from one's chosen path" is a great idea visually.
     
  6. dg1379

    dg1379 Commander Premium Member

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    Never saw these before. That is an awesome background painting!
     
  7. Mario de Monti

    Mario de Monti Captain Captain

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    I guess we´re all blown away by that particular one - well, except Maurice ;)

    Thanks for posting this, Mytran :techman:
     
  8. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've seen the painting before. :)
     
  9. Mario de Monti

    Mario de Monti Captain Captain

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    That´s what I thought and my remark was meant as a tip of the hat to your knowledge of Trek.
     
  10. Maab

    Maab Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Where?!? (If I may ask)

    However I also find extremely interesting the Phase II story proposal.

    Best,
    Maab
     
  11. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    "Nothing much new in those photos" :confused:

    While I've not seen every TMP photo ever printed in publication, I have seen quite a lot back then, but definitely never that drydock wall painting for the rec room scene without the studio set in front of it.

    These are obviously not just some well known publicity stills, but private behind the scenes photos courtesy of the Resella family, so I find this remark not helpful at all, to say the least.

    But while we are at this, maybe somebody can explain THIS:

    [​IMG]

    In Mytran's other thread (forced and faked Trek perspective drawings) it became rather clear, that just below the engine room set level they covered the floor with some kind of painted canvas to create the illusion of a long vertical engine core extending at least 5 deck levels down (the shadow towards Scotty's console indicates the end of the physical set element and the beginning of the painting):

    [​IMG]

    The problem, obviously, is that the illusion requires a fixed position of the camera (Meyer took some liberties in the TWOK engine room inspection room scene if you look close at the wrinkled and reused canvas painting there).

    In simpler language: The picture from the Resella family ("3 of 11" in the link) appears to be a different (earlier?) floor painting because it features a completely different viewing angle and with additional core segments!!! :eek:

    If that isn't a little sensation, then I frankly don't know what would qualify as such. :rolleyes:

    Bob

    P.S.

    Here is a graphic example how the illusion dissolves the moment the camera abandons its fixed position:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2014
  12. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Couldn't help but wonder, how Ben Resella was able to take these pictures. Well, turns out he was a Hollywood legend creating painted sceneries and looking again at the context of the link it became obvious, that he was apparently in charge of painting the engine core extensions, the corridor extension and the giant drydock painting.

    And I'm afraid, Mytran is now going to be in trouble. The link should have been in your thread about "Forced Perspectives", didn't you hear about the BBS prohibition of posting double threads? ;) (just kidding, but I think there should be a quick update in the "Forced Perspectives" thread, now that we located the artist for a couple of those).

    Bob
     
  13. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Okay, until we hear some solid background information on the alternate engine core painting, I'd say it's up to speculation and here are my 0.02 $:

    • This painting is post-Minor and post-Phase II because it features no longer the "Minor spheres" but these cylindrical and connecting segments instead which we saw in he final film
    • We are probably looking at the first engine core extension painting intended for a scene that didn't make it into the film. Either Bob Wise wanted to shoot Kirk's entry differently or the original plan (a camera pan from the lower core to the upper engine room level / physical set) didn't work out because it became too obvious that the extension was fake (this was still the "analog" age, so how this would have looked on film depended entirely on shooting it first and then evaluating the footage)
    • Instead, they decided to shoot the engine core extension from a higher point of view with a moderate camera pan that wouldn't betray the intended illusion ("play it safer") and it worked. Possibly a late decision, thus Ben Resella didn't have time to include as many cylindrical connecting segments as he did in the first extension painting.
    Bob
     
  14. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Different angles of stuff we've seen a dozen times. And I've seen the b.g. painting before, just not from that angle. So not all that interesting to me.

    Where in the board guidelines is "helpful" a requirement?

    People politely expressing a personal opinion is just that. Feel free to add me to your ignore list if your eyes are tiring of rolling in their sockets. :)
     
  15. Chris3123

    Chris3123 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nice pics! :techman: I really like the one with the crewmember standing near the end of the warp core set piece, as it really helps to illustrate the forced perspective technique they used.
     
  16. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    I think this is largely the case, and quite possibly for the reasons you suggested (there's certainly a distinct difference in the POV of the shot). The port/starboard difference between the early photo and the final one used in TMP also made me look twice. An interesting feature of both versions is that the "rooms below" are rectangular, not square; the port/starboard areas have an extra bit of decking adjacent to the transparent floor, allowing us to orientate both photos quite effectively. Here, the painting is designed to be viewed from the foreward/port location, probably preceding this pan up to Kirk (which survived to the final film)

    [​IMG]

    There's a second possibility too: As discussed at length in Blssdwlf's thread, Kirk's apparent entry from a door in the fore (they just reused the door from the main Engine Room after all) doesn't really match with the footage we see on screen (Kirk enters from the aft side of the room in fact).

    The Resella picture on the other hand would fit into a situation with Kirk arriving on the forward part of Upper Engineering and peering over from a fore/port position. The drawback with this is that Scotty would be masked by the railings.

    Or maybe - the photo we have is simply mirrored for some reason? It matches the final version much better then!

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I also considered the possibility that the Resella picture might be mirrored, but that would have been the only one in the series, IIRC.

    The problem remains that the illusion of the extension painting in the film only works from one particular camera fixed position. Already on the previous thread page we have seen an example how a rather small deviation from that position did "bend" the engine core. Thus it's impossible that the Resella picture could have been taken from an even farther position and still maintain the illusion of straight vertical engine core (add to this we would have been able to still see at least one more cylindrical segment).


    [​IMG]

    According to the reactions of the BBS members participating in this thread (members that just didn't develop an interest for TMP images yesterday), "we" have not seen this stuff a dozen times.

    Bob
     
  18. arch101

    arch101 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    According to the reactions of the BBS members participating in this thread (members that just didn't develop an interest for TMP images yesterday), "we" have not seen this stuff a dozen times.

    Bob[/QUOTE]

    I've been a rabid TMP fan since the film came out. I even have some of the old "Inside Star Trek" fan mags from the late '70s that have some nifty and rare pre-production pics and art.
    I've never seen this stuff before. Glad it's here and stirring debate.
     
  19. Joe_Atari

    Joe_Atari Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I won't speak for Maurice, but count me among the :eek: crowd on these pics; thanks Mytran! The early engineering, corridor, and rec deck backdrop photos were the highlights for me.

    Re: The corridors -- I'm still waiting to see photos of the pre-TMP Phase II corridors. The one labeled "New Movie Version 1978" must be very shortly after the new corridors were assembled around the original Phase II walls (which as I understand remained behind the TMP/TNG walls until they were demolished).

    Re: Rec deck backdrop -- The only other photo I've seen of the backdrop was from a low, side angle (tried but couldn't find it in my collection; anyone have it handy?). Interesting that the nacelle has the red striping that was removed during the Trumbull mods (and prominent on the Mike Minor preproduction art). Had Wise not decided to obscure the backdrop with extras during the briefing scene, Trumbull would have had to retain the stripes to match the live-action rec deck footage.

    It's interesting that these photos are not from the Paramount archives but rather from a staffer's personal collection (reference shots, etc.). Maybe that's where we're going to get most of our previously unseen behind-the-scenes material going forward.
     
  20. Vger23

    Vger23 Captain Captain

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    The sad thing is that this beautiful engineering/intermix chamber set was only seen in TMP and TWOK. Does anyone know why that is? This was my favorite Enterprise set from the films, but it only made appearances in those two movies.