Great Intelligence (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by DalekJim, Jan 13, 2013.

  1. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've been up all night watching the Troughton recons of the first 2 Great Intelligence stories and uh... this doesn't add up. The 2012 Christmas special provided an origin story for the Intelligence but in The Abominable Snowmen it has been around for hundreds of years prior?

    What is going on!? A fairly major fuck up there that Moffat could have avoided merely by basic Wikipedia research.
     
  2. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing.

    How can something a few web nerds care about be called "fairly major" - who cares? how does it change the story as presented?
     
  3. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Because it's a huge error? The entirety of The Abominable Snowmen hinges on The Doctor's prior visit to the monastery hundreds of years ago. It's kinda impossible to overlook when watching either story.

    We have an origin story for something that 2 appearances earlier is said to have been around for over a hundred years prior to said origin story. It's a really weird error.
     
  4. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    maybe the dr went to the monastary and didn't tell you, to teach you a lesson about whining about insignificant stuff on the internet.
     
  5. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If only he'd arrived in time to teach you a lesson about basic grammar and manners :(.
     
  6. StCoop

    StCoop Commodore Commodore

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    If you have a look at the new DWM Moffat explains that the GI can travel through time. So he did think about it but quite rightly felt no need to mention it in the episode for the six people who'd get worked up about it.
     
  7. The Badger

    The Badger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Im in ur Tardis, violating ur canon.
    As I understand it, the Doctor's old friend Padmasambhava supposedly contacted the Great Intelligence on 'the astral plane'. Perhaps such contact transcends the boundaries of time and space?

    We certainly know messages can be sent telepathically through time (The Hand Of Fear, Silence In The Library, The End Of Time Part One). For me, it's not such a leap to accept the Intelligence, banished in 1892, could be contacted by the wandering meditations of a Tibetan Monk in the 17th century.
     
  8. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    A wizard did it.
     
  9. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, my general loathing of Tom Spilsbury has caused a DWM allergy but it's pretty cool he set the record straight after realising the error. I suppose maybe also, the Great Intelligence could view time in a non-linear fashion ala the Prophets in DS9.

    This had occurred to me too and is my personal theory to reconcile the contradiction.
     
  10. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This quote wins the Internet. :)
     
  11. StCoop

    StCoop Commodore Commodore

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    His deluded belief that being Moffat's arse-kisser-in-Chief makes him somehow special always makes me laugh.

    Especially when it leads to things like him confirming the GI's appearance in the Xmas Special in advance during an argument on Twitter. Wonder how that one went down with Cardiff...
     
  12. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't follow him on Twitter. I added Andrew Cartmel on Facebook and that's the extent of my online stalking of Doctor Who famous people. I am told Noel Clarke comes across as a completely unhinged thug on his Twitter though, which sounds amusing.
     
  13. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, but as the DWM editor, that's part of his job brief and he's paid to be the arse-kisser-in-chief. What I find amusing that while someone like Ben Cook at least acts like he knows he's a propagandist for the Cardiff regime, Spilsbury pretends that he's an independent actor and his editorial decisions are his and his alone, which isn't true at all. It's the nature of the licensing game; there's nothing that DWM prints that Cardiff hasn't signed off on multiple times. Some things Cardiff will care about less than others (so something like the "Here's what the actors are doing" column will merit a "Whatever" at most), but anything they publish about the new series will have vetted to within an inch of its life.

    That was not his finest moment. That was a Twitter argument with Blogtor Who, wasn't it?

    I don't understand the antipathy in some corners of fandom for Blogtor Who. You can't link to Blogtor Who articles on Gallifrey Base, for example; the software will munge up the link and make it unusable. Maybe it's Blogtor Who's unwillingness to toe the party line? That's one of the striking things about fandom in the past few years, the inability in some quarters to tolerate a "loyal opposition" of criticism done out of love rather than hate.
     
  14. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Surely that is the corner that has heard of it to start with? I'd never heard of it before you mentioned it in this thread.
     
  15. Konata Izumi

    Konata Izumi Commander Red Shirt

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    It's not a fuck up if it works within the context of the story and can be fanwanked into continuity that easily and sensibly. It's just plot.

    If the time difference was very small, that would be a mistake I guess, cause what would be the sense in that.

    Moffat Who should come with a notice "some fanwank required". Which of course means immense amounts...
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  16. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    Konata pretty much says it all: everybody who's ever worked on Doctor Who has taken the sensible attitude that if continuity gets in the way of a good story, you ignore it (the fans will find a way to make it work: we already have several suggested ways to get round this problem). That's acceptable unless you miss an easy tweak which would have avoided the problem, or make the continuity central to the plot and then get it wrong.
     
  17. Robert D. Robot

    Robert D. Robot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    SO -if I've got this right- Doctor Eleven defeats the Great Intelligence after it appears on Earth in mid-19th Century London and -in a weakened state- it hears Padmasambhava from across the astral plane and so travels back to 17th Century to rest up and eventually meet up with Doctor Two in the 20th Century? Sounds like it could work (Not for 'Law & Order: SVU', but for 'Doctor Who'-- yes!
     
  18. Nagisa Furukawa

    Nagisa Furukawa Commander Red Shirt

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    No, it's because they have non-copyright holder approved YouTube links and any site like that is munged up when tried to be linked on Gallifrey Base.

    Not that I support Blogtor Who anymore than I do Tom Spilsbury; someone once described them as the Heat Magazine of Doctor Who and that's a fair description.

    Shame the story itself was pretty disappointing, especially the origin of the Great Intelligence. Snow reflected off a child's thoughts who becomes "real" when the guy's memories are deleted?? Pretty underwhelming origin, even if it didn't contradict anything.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Everybody lies.
     
  20. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    Well, yes: I like it a lot more than the previous Christmas special, but wasn't keen on the new origin for the Intelligence.
    But maybe I should edit my earlier comment from "good story" to "what you hope will be a good story". 'Cos even the author doesn't really know till it's made...