German expressions in recent Trek novels

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Cut, Dec 16, 2008.

  1. Cut

    Cut Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I was wondering about the high numbers of german expressions found in recent Star Trek novels.

    As in 'Greater Than The Sum', 'Star Trek: Destiny Gods of Night' and some 'Star Trek: Titan' books for example.

    As a native german speaker I find it quite nice and interesting to see which words are being introduced into the stories (aside the more militaristic terms as 'blitzkrieg' or 'ersatz-something' that have been known to creep up in some stories every now and then), but there have been also a quotation of Bertolt Brecht at the beginning of a book, aknowledgements at the start of yet another, and some more bits and pieces (especially in 'Gods of Night') to be found recently.

    Have some authors of modern Trek fiction (Andy Mangels, David Mack, Chris L. Bennett, etc...) a german speaking background or is this simply included to add some flavour to the language used (as they did back in the day with japanese terms in some BattleTech novels for example).

    Anyway, I just became curious. :)
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Uhh, what German expressions were there in Greater Than the Sum? I don't remember including any.

    But the examples you give, "blitzkrieg" and "ersatz," are both loan words that have been adopted into standard English. If I used any such German-derived loan words, I wasn't thinking of them as German.
     
  3. David Mack

    David Mack Writer Commodore

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    I was just looking to add a bit of flavor. Also, when I was growing up, my older brother studied German for a few years in high school, so I picked up some of his affinity for it.
     
  4. Cut

    Cut Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I see. That might acutally haven been the terms in 'Greater Than The Sum' that I reffered to. I have read the book just last week in preparation for my start into the Destiny series. I admit that I would need to look up examples, as I don't have any on my mind right now (and of course my copy of the book not at hand...). I shall skim through the pages and bring some examples, or not. We'll see :) There are some more references in 'GoN' with the engineer of Columbia. He uses "Ja, Nein, Jawohl" and on one ocasion 'kaput', although that one is misspelled a bit (it's missing a second 't').

    Anyway I remember being 'pleased' (that is somehow the right and the wrong word at the same time) when I read the german line in the writers aknowledgements of 'Star Trek Titan: Taking Wind'.

    I only came back to the Star Trek fiction universe the last few weeks, when the site I write my reviews for offered my the german version of the first Star Trek Titan book as a review copy and have to catch up now big time.

    It's a nice thing to have some german expressions in those books for me.

    On a more personal note: As you have been here posting, Mr. Bennett, I'd like to say, that I liked most of 'GttS' and had a lot of fun reading about your very intriguing half-vulcan character. She acutally reminded my of a Star Trek RPG game years and years ago, where we had some very _very_ unique characters playing the field of the Star Trek universe. They fitted in there better than one would imagine and it was one of the most rewarding roleplaying games I have ever participated in.
    It was a nice time back then, and your book made me think of that. Thank you for that, very much :)
     
  5. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    I presume you mean 'Taking Wing' which, BTW, featured the Stupidest Starship Name Yet: USS Der Sonnenaufgang.
     
  6. Defcon

    Defcon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Really? I think it's annoying as hell. Especially the German/English mix Graylock uses. There's enough Denglisch (excessive use of english words in German; and yes, we have created a word for that :lol:) in the German language today, so I don't really need to see the same from the opposite side in my English Trek Literature.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    By the way, "kaput" is also an English word, and we spell it with one T.
     
  8. Cut

    Cut Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Thanks for the quick answer, Mr. Mack.

    I have been offered to review the german translation of the Vanguard series. Not being a huge TOS fan first and foremost (I grew up with 'The Next Generation') I like the Original Series, but am not as firm with it as with the newer series.

    So I'd like to use the oppurtunity to ask if there are books that you'd consider required reading to grasp the Vanguard series.

    Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2008
  9. Cut

    Cut Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Fascinating. Didn't know that. I stand corrected :)
     
  10. Cut

    Cut Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I do see this differently. I like it, and there are multiple reasons for that. One of them is for sure that we give some german expression back to those languages, that we adopted so many terms from.

    Funnyly we included some terms in our denglish that aren't even english (say 'handy' for mobile phone).

    I like the added flavour, but can understand your reasoning as well.
     
  11. Cut

    Cut Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I meant the aknowledgement to the adopted son of one of the authors with the line "Ich liebe Dich, mein Sohn."

    I had somehow managed to drop the Sonnenaufgang from memory :)
     
  12. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    it's one of the few things i hated in that book and overtook USS Bill of Rights as Stupidest Starship Name Yet in my mind, hence it sticks.
     
  13. ronny

    ronny Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Where's the USS Bill of Rights from? I'm guessing that's in a Carey book. :lol:
     
  14. Cut

    Cut Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Where's that one from?
     
  15. LightningStorm

    LightningStorm The Borg King Commodore

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    Cut, a friendly alert, posting three+ times in a thread in a row is against board rules. In the future if you find you have more to say and you were the last to post please utilize the Edit button on your post. Or if you have multiple people to reply to you can use the Multi-Quote button to quote multiple posts at once.

    Thanks and welcome to the board. :)
     
  16. David Mack

    David Mack Writer Commodore

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    Nope, you do not need to read any other Star Trek books before starting the Vanguard saga. Although it will feel more familiar if you have watched the original Star Trek television series, it's not necessary to have seen that.

    Enjoy the Vanguard saga!

    Best,
    David Mack
     
  17. EmperorKalan

    EmperorKalan Commander Red Shirt

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    Correct'amundo!

    Best Destiny.
     
  18. Cut

    Cut Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    My bad. I am sorry for that and thank you for the friendly heads-up. It won't happen again. :)


    I have seen TOS and have it on tape (at least most parts of it) so I should be fine. I am looking forward to Vanguard as well as the Destiny trilogy, which I just started. That one of course in original language.
     
  19. Baerbel Haddrell

    Baerbel Haddrell Commodore Commodore

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    I very much agree with you.

    I have nothing against German words when they are used in a realistic context. For example, Picard and Mueller use native swear words on rare occasions or religious exclamations. But I have never heard any German use this messy version.


    From my review of "Destiny: Gods of Night"

    There is just a minor thing here that irritated me. It is very minor compared to the rest of this excellent book but I want to mention it. What is it about Germans (Is that man Austrian or German?) in American literature or movies sometimes? All right, it was not as bad as the dreadful broken, misused and misspelled German Marvel inserted years ago into the X-Men when Nightcrawler appeared but I have never met any German who speaks English and sprinkles German words into his or her English as found also in this book. I certainly don`t. Something else: Be careful with literal translations. “Scheisskopf” is not a swear word that exists in the German language. I had to laugh when I read that because I remember that my husband wanted to be clever and used this word when driving after I had told him off for swearing at the wheel when our daughter is sitting on the back seat.
     
  20. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes there's German used by the Austrian engineer in Kobayashi Maru, on the Columbia.

    It sounds like some bad parody of Scotty.

    ".. the relays and energizers are completely fertiggemacht"
     

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