Generations was...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Johnny, May 17, 2013.

  1. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    Generations was a bloated tv episode, looked like a bloated tv espisode and sounded like a bloated tv episode. It's a wonder there was any Star Trek after it.
     
  2. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    And even though it's got all the ingredients you asked for, it just doesn't work.

    "Generations" had a lot of potential, but it suffered from having a completely unfocused mess of a script built around a laundry list ("...Kirk, ship blows up, Best Villain Since Khan[TM], Klingon sisters, Data's emotion chip, Enterprise B, Guinan...").

    At the time I hated the music. I thought it sounded too much like the TV series drone and I couldn't help but compare it to the excellent bombastic percussions of the STVI score. But I came to appreciate the score years later.
     
  3. Galactic Alignment

    Galactic Alignment Commander Red Shirt

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    Because it felt like a bloated TV episode, it was (IMO) the only one of the TNG films that really felt like you were watching something authentically TNG. Therefore Generations will always be my favourite of the TNG film by default, despite it being such a massively flawed and under-whelming mess.
     
  4. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    ???
     
  5. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    I agree completely with that.
     
  6. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's not true at all. As a matter of fact, at the time of BoBW, there was serious debate whether Patrick Stewart was going to return, since he had always felt that the producers were going to fire him. At the time, NO ONE knew if Picard was going to die or not.

    I still have no idea what you're talking about here. How are the Duras sister's actions in this movie any different from their actions in the show? And how does this change how other people live their lives in the 24th century?

    First of all, it's "Soran." Sauron is the bad guy from Lord of the Rings.

    Second, Soran had nothing to do with the destruction of the Enterprise. A lucky shot from an old Klingon Bird of Prey did that.

    Third, whatever point you're trying to make here still eludes me.

    And yet that's what happened in Star Trek '09, and that worked out beautifully.
     
  7. Argus Skyhawk

    Argus Skyhawk Commodore Commodore

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    To be honest, it rather amazes me to read that because I thought Generations had one of the most forgettable movie scores I've ever heard. I have trouble remembering any of the melody even while I'm watching the film. It really strikes me as a continuation of the musical wallpaper that we heard for years on the TV show. I say that despite the fact that I enjoy that film quite a bit.

    But hey, different melodies obviously work for different people. If that score grabs you, that's cool.
     
  8. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always liked the music they played when they were riding the horses.
     
  9. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commander Red Shirt

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    Just watched the movie last night.
    The best thing about the movie was the music, I really love it.
    And ofcourse the ENT-D was a beauty.
     
  10. Johnny

    Johnny Commander Red Shirt

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    Haha, right, let's try again! :)

    1. You say 'no one', but you mean, 'the people you spoke to, what you read and the stuff you watched'. I don't really call that definitive unless you worked in casting.

    IMO, there's a fairly standard track record within Star Trek where you don't, or very VERY rarely kill of a lead character (Yar), and if it does happen then what they call 'dramatic' is at the end of a series (Tucker), when it doesn't really matter. That's pretty steady over so many episodes. And BoBW just proved the point that you can stick as many tubes in to as many holes as you like, but the show must go on... next week... with little or no long term downwards effects to the rating.

    Or maybe it's because I'm a re-run baby (ie: was crapping into nappie sacks when this was made) and watched it when tv production had advanced a little more in. Yet... voyager...

    2. I don't mean that the universe actually changes, I mean the viewers perception of the universe changes. Their characters were behaving in a way which showed that not everywhere in the Star Trek universe and especially places so 'close to home' are that couchy-safe-environment that TNG peddled for so long. (and for the record, I like TNG, better than I like the other series, I just like Generations more.)

    3. I never said that SawRon Weasley ever destroyed or had anything to do with the destruction of the enterprise - expect for that bit where he tortured LaForge, put an implant in his visor so the sisters could destroy the ship bit - but still, I never said it. :) Just said the Enterprise got in the way. Hence the point I'm trying to make about the universe not revolving around this one ship, other stuff happens which doesn't involve them, making it feel like there's more going on and generally making space... feel... big. Which is why I like the film...

    4. Well were just going to have to disagree on that 2009 Star Wars film. But since this is about Generations, lets stay away from that.

    Best :)
    J.
     
  11. Johnny

    Johnny Commander Red Shirt

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    I think it stuck because nothing after it was ever as good. The bit of music I like about any of the films after Generations was bits of the Insurrection main theme, and the bit at the end of Nemesis where Picard walks out his office to just before it cuts to the ext shot... random.

    If you ever get the inkling, listen to the Generations overture. The openings amazing, IMO. :)
     
  12. xvicente

    xvicente Captain Captain

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    One of my many beefs with this movie is that the special effects scenes of the Enterprise going to warp, like the Klingon shi explosion, are lifted directly from the first episode of the show, the same that was reused almost ever other episode weekly for 7 years. Cheap. Then I learned that it is in fact super-advanced CGI that looks exaclty like the original shot. Technically amazing, but WTF would you use that to put the exacltly same scen in a movie? one that will be rewatched in tv sets just like the old film? dumb, ILM
     
  13. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's been well-documented by both the people who worked on TNG, and Patrick Stewart himself. It's not my fault that you choose not to believe the facts. I suppose you don't believe we landed men on the moon because you never worked at NASA.

    If that is something you got out of this movie that makes you enjoy it, my hat is off to you. I felt no such thing.

    See above.

    If you don't care for my choice of example, then how about "All Good Things...?" Roughly the same running time as Generations, and yet not only was ALL the cast involved to more or less equal degree, Yar was even involved too. Now compare that to Generations, FC, Insurrection, and Nemesis, where it was clearly the Stewart-Spiner show, and the five others were relegated to the background.

    BTW, I fixed your incorrect quotations.
     
  14. Johnny

    Johnny Commander Red Shirt

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    You haven't produced any facts, just one mans worry and a third hand statement. Nor does it dispel the on screen evidence of resetting for the next episode, before and after.

    FC, Ins, and less so with Nemesis, were fairly naff stories and weak delivery IMO (though I still enjoy them) which I think came from the loss of the history when they got rid of the D. Not that I would change Generations, but the come back could have been done better.
    As for AGT, I agree it was good, interesting story, but by the end of the episode the only real character development was Picards one-man journey and Rikers and Worfs agreement not to argue over Troi. :s Kinda defeats the whole point of development, and again we're back to nothing being different at the end of an episode.

    Thanks, but it was delibrayte.

    ...And before people think that I think those episodes are awful, I love them. They're just not in my top ten, but they're in the top 10%. I don't believe they were the most adventurous in storytelling or character development, as there were episodes and films which better cover the human condition.
     
  15. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I could go find you the links to the various articles/interviews, etc., but at this point it would be a waste of my time, as you are clearly being deliberately closed-minded and obstinate. So if you care to find them yourself, you may do so.

    I wasn't talking about AGT's character development. I was talking about how all seven regulars were used to much better effect than they were in Generations.

    I was aware of that. That's why I fixed them. And...I'm also done trying to converse with you. I'm glad you found some redeeming quality to Generations, but it's a lousy film nonetheless.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  16. Johnny

    Johnny Commander Red Shirt

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    Might be unpopular ;) but I can't get away from it! Music not your thing or do you have a preference as to a film/series score?
     
  17. Lee Enfield

    Lee Enfield Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxRZcTugWgU

    ...when Picard talks about enjoying every moment, because it will not come back .... :wah: that doesn't get to you?;)
     
  18. Argus Skyhawk

    Argus Skyhawk Commodore Commodore

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    I enjoy the music from most of the Trek movies, especially the darker, more dramatic stuff like the Klingon theme from Trek3, 5, and FC, the Borg theme from FC, and the opening shot of Nemesis as the camera is zooming in on Romulus. The theme music to the TMP is rather thrilling (of course that theme showed up again as the theme of TNG, but I liked the TMP arrangement a little more). Trek 4, FC, and Insurrection all had beautiful opening credits themes.

    As for non-Trek scores, I of course love John Williams' music for the Star Wars movies, and I have a special fondness for a track from the Empire Strikes Back soundtrack titled "Hyperspace" if I remember correctly. I haven't seen the movie Last of the Mohicans, but what I've heard of the soundtrack is gorgeous. Bicentennial Man has a wonderful soundtrack, and I love that the music from the early part of the movie (when he is still mostly a robot) sounds more synthesized and computery while the music from the latter half sound more orchestral and natural. I'm too lazy to mention others.

    Sorry. I hear a lot of soft notes there, but nothing that resembles a melody, except for the momentary dramatic part at the very end. But hey, I'm sure that many songs and pieces of music which sound touching or gripping to me are boring to others, so I don't want to diss something that obviously works for you.
     
  19. Lee Enfield

    Lee Enfield Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Sure, sure... I just don't think that a dominant theme all the time is actually that gainful. STG has themes, but they are brought in with much sensitivity - they get bridged and abridged, interupted and interwoven with finer notes or voices. It's definately there. It's the same with scores like Lolita('98) or Fairy Tale: A True Story. Awsome sensible scores.
    And take, for example the Nolan Batman films. The themes are extremely toned down. Melodies aren't actually present. But it was very effective.

    I don't want to be rude. So, please correct me if I'm wrong. But you sound like there should be a party going on in the music, all the time.
    Epic stuff is epic, but sometimes it got to be the quieter notes...

    ....and sometimes it just got to be epic and still be moody.
    Transformers - Arrival to Earth(Steve Jablosnky)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H0JDomv8ac
     
  20. Argus Skyhawk

    Argus Skyhawk Commodore Commodore

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    Oh I'm fine with softer, subtler scores when they are appropriate, but when someone asks me which scores I like, the first ones that will pop into my mind are the dramatic ones in which there is definitely a party going on in the music. However, the score to Generations doesn't strike me as just subtle. It strikes me as flat and emotionless. But of course, that's just me.