General order 24, were Kir kand Scotty bluffing?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by JT Perfecthair, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. JT Perfecthair

    JT Perfecthair Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    In Tase of Armageddon we see Kirk yell at Scott over an open communicator to prepare for General Order 24. Later we hear Scott say that the entire inhabited surface of Eminiar 7 would be destroyed. Would they have done so? Apart from the moral and political implications of such an act, does the Enterprise really have enough phaser coolant for that? Or would they have taken their time, exterminate everybody over a few days?

    There are times such as this episode or watching Kirks behaviour towards Professor Crater where a person not familiar with the show might have some trouble knowing who the "good" guys actually are.
     
  2. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't interpret General Order 24 as some sort of Death Star weapon. But it only took the Enterprise 15 minutes to identify all potential targets, so Scott seemed prepared to carry out the order if the hostages weren't released.

    The Eminians had previously destroyed a starship, had attacked the Enterprise, and two landing parties (including Fox and his flunky) were being threatened with execution if the Enterprise didn't surrender. Normal diplomatic negotiations had failed. Kirk was out of options, until one presented itself just in the nick of time.
     
  3. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've never had the impression that Kirk and scott were bluffing, and believe that Scott would have indeed carried out Kirk's order if required.
     
  4. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    One thing that didn't make sense to me was how did Ambassador Fox beam down if the shields were up? Did he bully the hapless transporter officer like he tried to do with Scott? And why didn't the bridge notice that a transport was in progress?
     
  5. jpv2000

    jpv2000 Captain Captain

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    Same here.
     
  6. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Didn't Garth use that order to try and kill the Antosians?
     
  7. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That sounds correct.

    You know, the existence of General Order 24, and the capability of Constitution class starships to lay waste to an entire planet call into question the whole "we're just peaceful explorers" mantra of Starfleet, doesn't it?
     
  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Speak softly and carry a big stick. That's the motto of the Starship Teddy Roosevelt. ;)
     
  9. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^^
    Got no problem with that at all. Just think that Starfleet and Gene Roddenberry needed to be a bit more honest with themselves.
     
  10. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    In the Memory Alpha article regarding General Orders, they add this note:
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    It's Archer's fault. Dude pissed of a lot of people.

    I think TOS Gene was pretty honest. TNG Gene, not so much.
     
  12. Push The Button

    Push The Button Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Along with Picard's "Let's make sure..." speech in Yesterday's Enterprise, this still gives me chills when I hear it:

    "This is the commander of the U.S.S. Enterprise. All cities and installations on Eminiar Seven have been located, identified, and fed into our fire control system. In one hour and forty-five minutes, the entire inhabited surface of your planet will be destroyed. You have that long to surrender your hostages."

    For all the great Kirk and Spock scenes that take place on the planet in this episode (and there were many), this was Scotty's finest hour. I have no doubt that Eminiar Seven would have been turned into glass, as ordered and on schedule.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's what happens when you do too many drugs and buy into your own hype.
     
  14. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    While I agree that Scott and Kirk didn't seem like they were bluffing I can't see Scotty just wiping out an entire half-planet of whatever they could of the major planetary cities in range without Kirk's reconfirmation or Spock's.

    Scott will understand that Kirk is the King of the Bluffs and may be going along withe the bluff. After all Scott would only need wipe out a couple of cities for them to pay attention.

    However Kirk was considering killing all the Denevians so he obviously has the authority to carry out mass murder. At this episode in TOS maybe Kirk has to show that the Federation is not to be missed with.
     
  15. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    He won't launch an attack without later reconfirmation? If the Eminians kill the hostages in 30 minutes as promised, there would be no confirmation.
     
  16. Retu

    Retu Commander Red Shirt

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    Threatening to turn the surface of a planet to glass may sound great and all that, but it's a useless threat. If the other guy decides to call your bluff, you either have to back down or carry out your threat. Both options won't bring back the hostages. And in the latter option, the irony is that it's not the other guy who kills the hostages. It's you.
     
  17. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    It's not useless. The planet's threat to Federation shipping will come to an end. That's what they get for messing with greater powers. The fools were lucky they didn't get the chance to try this shit on the Klingons.
     
  18. Push The Button

    Push The Button Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Eminiar had been losing three million people a year for the past five hundred years. Executing General Order 24 would have killed perhaps three million people, but also would have finally ended their war with Vendikar once and for all.
     
  19. jpv2000

    jpv2000 Captain Captain

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    Agreed. Star Fleet can call them "Heavy Cruiser" or whatever, but everyone else knows what they are. For instance when the Enterprise nears the Genesis Planet the Klingons called a spade a spade and identified it as a Federation Battle Ship. :klingon:
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This.

    If the Klingons had stumbled upon this conflict first they would've never given them the chance to reconsider their conflict and talk peace. They would've either turned both in slave worlds or turned them to glass.

    Scotty was going to implement General Order 24.