Garth's uniform

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by King Daniel Beyond, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    I know Garth is nucking futs when we meet him, but under his robe and crown and mismatched boots, what's the uniform he's wearing? Is it supposed to be an older or alternate Starfleet uniform? It looks vaguely Babylon 5-ish.
     
  2. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    If you want it
    It looks vaguely Enterpriseish. ;)

    According to MA it's a reuse of a costume used in Journey to Babel and the Galileo Seven.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Yup, it's the same outfit Commissioner Ferris wore in "Galileo Seven." In "Babel" it was just worn by some extra in the background.

    So it would seem to be a civilian garment, perhaps the 2260s version of a business suit, rather than any kind of uniform.
     
  4. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Yes! Thanks, all:)

    It is indeed the suit first seen in "The Galileo Seven"
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Hey, that's got a little cape on it, hasn't it? So maybe something fancier than a business suit.
     
  6. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    If Garth is basically a 23rd Century Napoleon, again stuck on Elba, then it would make more sense that it's an old period Starfleet dress uniform.

    His look is certainly no more bonkers than having clothes brushes for epaulettes.



    Pointing out that a Federation commissioner wore something similar, isn't really much of an indication of intent with TOS. They reused costumes frequently without much thought to an overall continuity. Colonel Green, Zefram Cochrane, aliens from the Andromeda and mining colony personal all wore flight/jumpsuits for instance... despite being many centuries between those characters. Looking at those mining overalls for instance, they have a touch of retroactive continuity forward in time from Enterprise, as a potential uniform that's been discarded and become "spaceage army surplus".
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    On the other hand, if it is high-end civilian formal wear of the period, it's not unreasonable that Garth might wear it as part of his "imperial" ensemble. It's true that TOS did reuse various items without regard for continuity, but in cases where it actually works to assume continuity, why not?
     
  8. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Surely whether it's Ferris, some guy on his way to Babel or a Fleet Captain... they're all super formal attire for Federation big wigs.

    Commissioners and Ambassadors who even might be high ranking ex-Starfleet like Garth or possibly even still current, on temporary assignment.

    That guy who turned out to be Redjac wore a more basic business suit... and of course, Samuel Cogley.

    If you don't think it's some pre-Cage era style uniform, then that's that. At the end of the day, there's isn't much continuity between the pilot uniforms and the Kelvin ones, or Enterprise for matter. Nothing to indicate how TOS became TMP, or from there to TWOK. Anykind of visual clues how one evolved into the other, never seemed to have much rhyme or reason. Some badges and piping carried over, which could denote rank, but not as clear cut as in the 24th Century.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  9. Spike730

    Spike730 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 31, 2002
    Location:
    Austria
    Nothing about this outfit screams uniform to me.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    But why does everything have to be Starfleet all the time? Realistically, civilians should hugely outnumber Starfleet officers. Our view of the Trek universe has always been filtered through Starfleet, and that can create the illusion that Starfleet is the entire Federation, but realistically, it should be just one finite organization that watches over the trillions of non-military people who live on the Federation's many worlds. The odds of any randomly chosen person in the Federation being a member of Starfleet should thus be extremely low. That's just common sense, or should be.

    Besides, there's nothing about Ferris's attire that even suggests Starfleet. It's got no insignias or markings of any kind, so it can't be a military uniform. It looks like civilian wear, and it's worn by a member of the civilian government. (If Ferris had any military standing, he wouldn't have needed to invoke a special regulation under "galactic emergency procedures" in order to prove his authority to give Kirk orders.) There's no reason to doubt it was intended as civilian attire.
     
  11. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    Duplicate post for some reason.
     
  12. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    And yet for Garth's costume to fully work as that well-worn comedic image of Napoleon madness, this would have to been thought of as a uniform.

    [​IMG]

    Look he's even decorated. Having him strut around, believing in his legendary Starfleet status, even more eccentrically topped off with a fur coat, simply wouldn't be as funny if it were civillian wear! :p

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I'm willing to concede that Garth's outfit may have been a repurposing. What I disagree with is the completely unsubstantiated speculation that Commissioner Ferris was somehow in Starfleet.

    If it were just what Garth were wearing in the episode proper, I could believe he cobbled it together from what was available on Elba II. Note that it's just the jacket without the shirt underneath that Ferris had. The problem is the photo, which does seem to be treating it as a dress uniform. But clearly they just stuck him in front of a door while he was in costume and took a picture (and reversed it when they matted it in) without putting any more care or thought into it. I'm inclined to discount the photo and assume he was actually meant to be in a Starfleet dress uniform there. Those medals look too haphazard and garish to be the real thing.
     
  14. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Location:
    Gaithersburg, Maryland, USA, Terra
    Well, it's not just Commissioner Ferris' costume, but Anton Karidian's, too.

    [​IMG]

    In "Whom Gods Destroy," Garth of Izar wore the "smoking jacket" that Anton Karidian wore in "The Conscience of the King." It's a light green/dark green sort of paisley pattern with fur at the cuffs. Garth always wore one arm in the sleeve but the other side was simply draped over his shoulder like a cape. It made him look a bit "off balance." For Garth, the inside of this coat/cape/frock thing was lined with gold lame.

    We can't see if the lame was present when Karidian wore it. Here's Karidian:

    [​IMG]

    Garth wore this cape/coat/frock thing over the jacket that was worn by Commisioner Ferris in "The Galileo Seven." Ferris also wore some kind of cravate around his neck that Garth didn't wear; Garth just had an open collar.

    [​IMG]

    Ferris' coat also crops up in "Journey to Babel:"

    [​IMG]

    And, of course, Garth had boots of two mismatched colors (his left boot was gold and his right boot was metallic blue)--to reinforce the "off balance" look. Here he is in all his off-kilter, "How Not to Dress" splendor: left arm in the sleeve, right side worn like a cape and mismatched boots:

    [​IMG]

    Also, although it's hard to make out, John Gill wears the Commissioner Ferris costume in his photo on the monitor above Spock's station.
     
  15. TOSalltheway

    TOSalltheway Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Location:
    Canada
    Colonel Green, Zefram Cochrane, aliens from the Andromeda and mining colony personal all wore flight/jumpsuits for instance.

    Well...Colonel Green and Cohrane are from around the same time. The Andromedans copied our looks, they could have copied the clothing too. Maybe they were on that planet waiting three hundred years before Kirk and crew found them?
     
  16. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Yeah, he would have looked much better in a standard Starfleet issue captain's uniform. IMHO...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Let's not forget that Napoleon Bonaparte derived his original popularity from the ideals of a supposed popular revolution: he was the First Citizen before becoming a full-fledged warlord and Emperor. In that sense, Garth could well be wrapping himself in the regalia of a "popular leader" - combining elements from the costumes of contemporary politicians and pop stars to meet the expectations of the adoring masses. Military decorations (the medals and medallions?) would be but a minor element there, something Garth would wear with utterly false modesty.

    A bit unlikely, as they would have been overwhelmed by their humanity in that time, even without Kirk and friends goading them.

    Colonel Green's jumpsuit is probably another example of false modesty, unrelated to military gear exactly because Green is so indisputably a military man... Perhaps Green in a further display of modesty sent high energy broadcasts of himself to the stars, to propagate his wisdom to Earth's early colonies and exploration vessels, and the Andromedans picked up those broadcasts much like the Vega folks in Contact picked up Hitler's speeches?

    Of course, "Devil in the Dark" establishes the jumpsuit fashion as contemporary, so the Andromedans could have run into just about anybody.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    I think it was either supposed to represent an old Starfleet dress uniform, or was a smart civillian suit Garth wore specifically because it vaguely resembled a uniform (would they allow an inmate to wear their fleet uni?)
     
  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    We don't know whether Garth is really wearing anything. He can change his face and his clothing with fancy illusions; just because we see his real face doesn't mean we see his real clothing. He might be stark naked, or in his inmate's pajamas.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. jayrath

    jayrath Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2001
    Location:
    West Hollywood, Calif., USA
    I'm surprised that you all don't know that one silver and one gold boot is the very height of civilian fashion in the 23rd century. (It sure looks better than the trend a few years ago of having pant waists down around your butt crack, with underwear showing.)