Gaping Hole of Troiyus

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Captain Shatner, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was always under the impression that the dilithium crystals acted as a transformer or converter (it was referred to as the "dilithium crystal converter assembly" several times), somehow channeling or altering the raw energy from the matter-antimatter reaction to produce the warp field.

    It wasn't.

    BTW, apparently you can buy the stuff at Wal-Mart!

    [​IMG]
     
  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    [​IMG]
    "Why, Spock, surely you remember these?"
     
  3. Wingsley

    Wingsley Commodore Commodore

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    ^ That merely suggests that replicator technology became available years after TOS.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...Although the very scene showing that replicator-looking shelf comes from an adventure that Janeway specifically declared replicator-free, when said adventure was flashbacked in, well, "Flashback".

    So, clearly, when those clever engineers of the 24th century invented the replicator technology, they decided to install it in those classic 23rd century Boringian-style cabinets designed by the famous Dall Grey O'Tility himself, knowing it would sell best when attractively packaged.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If the ship has one set of machines to prepare food, and another set to fabricate parts and supplies, then all of these various products could be delivered to their ultimate destinations using the same turbo-dumbwaiter system. If they're not too large. The "food slots" in the transporter room's primary purpose could be high speed delivery of small repair components to the transporter operator.

    :)
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    On the other hand, since we see this device produce food the one time it is used, it would be pretty natural to assume it's there in order to provide food. Quite regardless of whether it's a cart-based dumbwaiter, a transporter-based dumbwaiter, an in situ synthesizer or a full replicator. Why not provide duty stations with this utility?

    ...Except in the case of cart-based dumbwaiters, that is. Those take up massive amounts of space. The ship must already be incredibly cramped from all the turboshafts and corridors that block each other and, unless very carefully laid out, hinder rather than facilitate access. Adding a third set of large cross section trunks (or fourth, if breathing air is still being moved around the old-fashioned way) would be a poor move.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. Doug Otte

    Doug Otte Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It does seem kind of dangerous to have the food dispenser in the transporter room. Suppose a transporter tech dripped soy sauce on the control panel just before a critical transport was required?
     
  8. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    They didn't exist until 2364.

    It's been stated several times that Dilithium cannot be replicated, only mined, as of the 2380's novelverse this is still the case.

    Replicating something so complex would take hours, even one or two days.
     
  9. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I wouldn't get too hung up on terminology. The important thing is what seems possible or what does a particular device appear to be doing rather than what it's called.

    The TOS E did have some form of replication tech aboard even if it wasn't called that. I envisioned the food processors working quite similarly as the TNG era ones only the slots are closed while in operation as opposed to always open as they are in TNG. For TOS it certainly would be cheaper f/x wise.

    Indeed a lot of TOS' tech can be rationalized by more familiar science even if the terminology is different. I've long thought nanotech has to have been part of TOS' as well as TNG's science even it was called something else or even just not specifically referred to. TNG didn't introduce nanotech to Trek, but rather intelligent nanotech (the nanites). That suggests nanotech has been around for awhile even if called something else.
     
  10. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    I always went by Kirk's line in Squire of Gothos, that the ship could "manufacture" whatever they wanted, sounding a little more mechanical and physical in it's operation. The original E had high speed food preparation and movement, machine rooms that could build or create things at what we would consider incredible rates.

    But the replicator of matter-energy transporter based operation seemed to awe and be new to everyone in TNG.

    For some reason though neither were ever able to make Dilithium, one of those Trek "rules" that stuck.

    I wrote a short 'evolution of warp technology' article a couple of years ago taking the "Lithium" line literally to mean nano-tube lithium "crystals" manufactured on the atomic level as an experimental subsitute to Dilithium that could also be machined on-ship if necessary but never worked out.
     
  11. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Whether or not they were called replicators, the simple fact is they were only shown to provide food, nothing else. Sure, in Catspaw, we were told the Enterprise could create gemstones, but we were never told how or how long that would take. There was no indication they would come from the wall slots. Scotty called them "Food synthesizers" in Tribbles, yes? I was always of the mind they weren't creating food as much as delivering it. There were too many references to "the galley." I envisioned people making food and storing it. Then when you placed your order in the slot, it was beamed in or something. The food slots seemed a tad too magical for me sometimes.

    If you want to put TNG era names on it, then call it the Food Replicator, because they were never shown to create anything else (food includes drinks, by the way).

    No gaping hole in that regard, sorry.
     
  12. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    [​IMG]
    Actually, that merely suggets a lighted shelf where Kirk kept his dirty dishes. Maybe the yeoman didn't come by and pick it up yet. How long were they sitting there? The ship only just left space dock, Kirk didn't have time to scarf down a full meal. Was that breakfast before the meeting? If that was a replicator, why didn't he hit the button and get rid of the dishes? Is he that lazy he can't hit a button? Honestly, his quarters looked like they stank.

    Odds are it's a food synthesizer, only they don't have the sliding doors anymore. Considering there IS a galley with cooks in this movie.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Why would the delivery system be called a synthesizer?
     
  14. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Also what something is called can mean something rather different than what that name meant at an earlier time.

    A ship's galley as we understand it today could be quite different in the far future where advanced automation and nanotech is involved. Today you need a complete staff to man a galley and feed hundreds or thousands of crewman. In the 23rd century maybe you only need one guy monitoring the whole operation including programming. With a sophisticated system maybe all the one (or few) individual(s) need to be primarily responsible for is making certain the right raw materials are available and in place.

    And "manufacturing" can mean more than just assembling parts. Today we already take raw materials and convert them into parts to be assembled into something else. Nanotech and/or replication can simply be refining and broadening the term.
     
  15. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    In Charlie X Kirk tells Charlie: On Earth today, it's Thanksgiving. If the crew has to eat synthetic meat loaf, I want it to look like turkey. Charlie.
     
  16. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it's still food even if not literally made from genuine turkey meat.
     
  17. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    :guffaw:
     
  18. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Well, did you note the size of her guards? And we also saw she could really chow down.
     
  19. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because Scotty is a drunk and was confined to quarters when everything was going down. He was reading his tech journals and was a little deep in his cups when called to figure out the problem (hey this could work for Tribbles or any episode or movie really).

    That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

    [pause]

    Maybe it sythesized frozen food, like a Space Age Automat. You really wanted to eat the good stuff from Cookie in the galley, but you only had time for a Hot Pocket.

    Well, okay, fine, even of they could replicate food, it was still never anything beyond that. It's still not a plot hole in Elaan of Troyius.

    The scene in Trek 6 could still have just been the lit shelf Kirk dumped his filthy dishes. Could have been the sonic dishwasher for all we knew.
     
  20. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Your mastery of subtlety never ceases to amaze me.