Galileo Restoration Update - Jan 2012

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Search4, Jan 29, 2013.

  1. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Except that it didn't look like that during the series' production.
     
  2. jayrath

    jayrath Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2001
    Location:
    West Hollywood, Calif., USA
    In an effort to help this Galileo thread be solely about the Galileo, and to avoid confusion, I've created a new post exclusively about the 11-footer. Concerned readers may care to share their views there, rather than here.
     
  3. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    I think it's funny that so many people seem hung up on the fact that the shuttle mock-up is not 1:1 scale with the interior, considering that such int/ext discrepancies are common in movies and TV. On another board there was a discussion of the typical downscaling of set pieces to make them affordable and able to fit into soundstages.
     
  4. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Location:
    New York State
    The technical drawing efforts the I've seen, meant to reconcile the Shuttlecraft's interior and exterior, have shrunk the interior down to size. You lose a lot of headroom.

    Blueprints for other things have gone in both directions:

    The Space 1999 Eagle was done by Geoff Mandel at a length of 76 feet, resulting in an interior ceiling height of only 5.5 feet. Roberto Baldassari made his version 102 feet long, to fully contain the interior studio sets, but this put the eye-shaped cockpit windows far above the pilot seats.

    Shane Johnson created a set drawings for the LIS Jupiter II, in keeping with the established size of the exterior, but he had to omit the entire lower deck. [He appended a nice lower floorplan with a note that it was for a proposed future version of the ship that would be much larger.]

    Other, more recent Jupiter II plans have at least doubled the diameter of the saucer. This allows pretty much everything to fit inside, but the relationship between interior and exterior features gets thrown out of whack, especially on the top deck.

    One of the most interesting and realistic reconciliations between interior sets and an exterior mockup (in this case, a backlot facade) is what Adam R. Jones did for the Bewitched house. He created a complete, working, buildable set of blueprints for this fictional house. It's at 1164.com.
     
  5. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Location:
    USS Berlin
    I guess we could add a lot of other vehicles to that list (like "Forbidden Planet's" United Planets Cruiser C-57 D).

    While working for TNG, Andrew Probert was quite aware of the issue and hoped that his TNG Galileo design would be a good compromise putting such contradictions to an end.

    Instead we got the Shuttlepod cardboard box. :(

    Bob
     
  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    I've already had my say on this in my own way:
    http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=142783
    http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=215626&highlight=TOS+shuttlecraft
    http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=242510&highlight=TOS+shuttlecraft



    Briefly:

    The 22ft. exterior mockup is obviously too small to hold an interior even remotely resembling what we saw onscreen. So at best all you can do is put something rudimentary into it. The exterior was made smaller so it could be more easily transported and more easily handled on set.

    The interior set is impossibly large and if you scale up the exterior (to about 32ft.) to hold it you end up with an exterior too large to be properly accommodated within the Enterprise's hangar area.

    The miniature seen in the hangar interior shots is also slightly too small while the flight deck itself is slightly too large.

    The best is to compromise and there are clues in the series (most notably "The Galileo Seven") that the problem was recognized and there are hints the interior was meant to be smaller than what we were seeing. The interior set was made fullsize to accommodate the bulky filming cameras of the era.

    The compromise I came up with several years ago was about 26-1/2 ft. The interior is scaled down some, but it's still immediately recognizable with only the loss of some headroom and some cabin length (and there was plenty to spare on the fullsize set). The exterior looks exactly the same as seen onscreen.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2013
  7. Metryq

    Metryq Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    VFX artists no longer need to worry about props that are "too big" to move around the set conveniently.

    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEDC4T-WfRw[/yt]​

    For those who may not realize it, the spaceship in the back yard is a CGI model created in Blender, which can also match-move the handheld camera.
     
  8. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    Would REALLY like to see that at higher rez. Reflections and depth of field look amazingly accurate to real-world.

    Of course this skirts the whole issue of when you have something physical there it gives everybody on-set something to relate to in a way that imagination can't really deliver, even with SimulCam type on-set comps. Probably why there is so much more of a push to get away from greenscreen or minimize green in favor of getting more in-camera as of late. OBLIVION took advantage of 15K imagery -- 3 red cameras shooting panoramic sky plates -- to project backgrounds on-set in a way that looks unbelievably awesome and also at the same time provided all the lighting and reflection sources for the apartment in the clouds stuff.
     
  9. Metryq

    Metryq Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Match-moving has been around for years, now. Go to YouTube and search for "Blender match move" or "Blender camera tracking." Before Blender got its own built-in feature, third-party apps, like SynthEyes, could provide the motion data. Before this technology arrived, most composite shots had to be "locked off," meaning the camera could not move. Since modern movies are so dynamic and Steadicam a routine tool, composite shots need to move, too.

    Match-moving does not mean there is nothing present on the set. For example, a couple of C-stands (used for lights) might mark the general location of the ship, or the door in the ship. For big creatures, such as the T-rex in JURASSIC PARK or Draco in DRAGONHEART, a production assistant with a simple prop on a pole might give the actors a common focal point for addressing the creature's face, etc. Or a spaceship might have a partial construction, such as a boarding ramp. It varies by production. The line between miniatures, composites and matte paintings has been blurred by computer technology. Sometimes it is now called "scene extension."

    As for reflections, actual reflections from the location might be captured as a "light probe." A light probe is simply a chrome sphere. The camera shoots the image in the sphere, thus capturing at least 180 degrees, or a hemisphere of the surrounding area. That light probe is then applied to the CGI so that the computer object reflects the actual scene. Again, there are nuances and details to this technology, too. For example, HDR (high dynamic range) light probes can be used as full environment "light sources" when rendering the CGI. Watch the home video supplements for movies like one of the TERMINATOR movies, and you may notice someone on set with a chrome sphere on a pole. (Half the sphere might be a neutral gray.) Odds are that is a light probe sphere.

    And what about all these poles and other things on the set? They can be erased in a number of ways with digital tools. Many of the creatures in the LORD OF THE RINGS movies, or the robots in I, ROBOT were played by real actors on set, interacting with the other actors. The creature and robot stand-ins are "erased" and replaced with CGI figures. While greenscreen stages are still in use, or sections of a location may feature small "flying" greenscreens, the current trend is to shoot on real locations. The technology makes it possible, and a real location makes everything easier on the actors.

    The technology is amazingly sophisticated today, and available to the home hobbyist. Still, the high technology does not guarantee awesome results. The artists (and the directors telling them what to do) must still know their craft.
     
  10. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    I don't think Trevanian is unaware of the realities of VFX technology and it's capabilities/limitations. Call it a hunch. ;
     
  11. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    How it was done.
    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnhvy-OSvZ8[/yt]
     
  12. Metryq

    Metryq Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Trevanian's second paragraph suggests some familiarity with the subject. My response was intended for others. The video you posted was a nice supplement, yet still glosses over some of the basics, such as reflections from the real location, whether actors must totally imagine what they are looking at, or have some reference points on location, etc.
     
  13. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Location:
    Georgia, USA
    Hey, that's the "Vanguard" model that's sold ar DAZ.

    http://www.daz3d.com/vanguard

    Never seen it placed within a "real world" environment. Neat!

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Gene's office
    Oh, cute. So the guy probably really did "order" it online. :lol:
     
  15. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    Location:
    Georgia, USA
    Yeah, funny on a couple of levels.

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  16. Search4

    Search4 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2008
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    That's really neat - quite impressive. Can someone do that with virtual Galileo? I'd like to show it in MY backyard.

    After all, it did disappear for 20 years.
     
  17. Metryq

    Metryq Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
  18. Haggis and tatties

    Haggis and tatties Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2002
    Location:
    Glasgow
    ^^^Those eagle pictures were just awesome....Thanks. :)
     
  19. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Location:
    Outer Graceland
    I have started a White House petition to re-restore, preserve, and move the 11-foot, original Enterprise model to the Museum of American History, a more fitting home for the ol' girl.

    Sign at the link below. It is not public until there are 150 sigs. Publicize this and share the link if you agree with the idea. Be well!

    http://wh.gov/pewY
     
  20. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    That is cool! :techman: I'd love to be able to do something like that once I get more practiced with 3D modelling.