"Fury" Kes, a Mirror Kes?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by USS Fardell, Dec 12, 2008.

  1. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If those in charge weren't concerned anymore over the Kes fans who "hadn't been loyal to the show", they could at least have been cordial enough not to insult them even more.

    Wasn't it enough that they did kick out Kes without an acceptable reason in season 4? Was it necessary to bring back the character-only to destroy her?
     
  2. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Come on, stop pulling my leg.

    You know as well as I there wouldn't be any reason you'd find acceptable for Kes leaving. Would you rather she die?

    As I said before, they created the character and they can do whatever they wish. They don't feel they destroyed the character and I don't see very many Kes fans voicing their disapproval other than yourself. I've heard compliants, yes but not to the degree you're making it out. They were cordial enough to bring her back but nobody can for see the future to know a few wouldn't like it. The world would be perfect if that could happen.
     
  3. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, they were actually planning to kill off the character in "Fury" but Jennifer Lien made them change that.

    But what they did to the character in "Fury" was worse than death.

    There have been a lot of complaints about what happened in "Fury", not only from Kes fans. Many Voyager fans hated the way they destroyed a main character like they did.

    If they didn't realize that they did destroy the character, then they must be incredible stupid. I mean, they couldn't really believe that the fans of the character would like the episode, could they?

    I'm sure that they did notice the reaction from the fans (in fact, I know that they were aware of the reaction from the fans because of some contacts I had at that time). Still, no apology or even a plausible explanation. They did have a chance to correct the damage in some season 7 episode but they didn't.

    But I hope that some good author will come up with a book in which Kes is restored to normal and brought back as a permanent main character in future Voyager books again.
     
  4. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Apology for what?

    They gave us 7 years of a show. They don't need to apologize for anything. There was even a post in the news forum about B&B and many here think they deserve praise dispite the few short comings & bumps in the road. Many understand that it's not easy writing and producing any series much less one with a limited audience like Trek. After TNG & DS9, it's amazing they still found stories to write about for Voyager or ENT.

    Besides, they already admitted the character was poorly done which is why they wrote her out in the first place.

    I'm sorry but one on-going complaint about one character and one or two eps. is absolutely nothing compared to writing & producing 4 spin off shows, 3 of which lasted 7 years. 4 shows with a cast of 9 or more for each, over 24 or more eps. each season all of which had to be written for. On that grand of a scale they had to work on, one character like Kes meant nothing. Besides, Kes had been off the show for 4 years and Voyager's been over for even longer. Many have moved on way beyond this, even fewer & fewer complain about "Endgame" each year as the show gets older.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2008
  5. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There are many fans who are dissatisfied with Berman and Braga.

    I will give them all credit for coming up with TNG, DS9 and Voyager, the characters and the stories. In fact, they did a very good job with TNG.

    But their work with Voyager was sloppy and uninspired and Enterprise was something of a failure.

    They did also some really stupid things which p***ed off many loyal fans.

    The TOS fans hate what they did to Kirk in "Generations".

    The Kes fans hate what they did to Kes in "Fury" and "The Gift".

    The J/C fans hate the Seven-Chakotay relationship.

    Add to that many casual fans of Trek who simply think that they made a bad job with Voyager and Enterprise.

    They did actually succed in alienating certain groups of fans which may have had an impact on Star Trek's popularity.

    And yes, I do think that they owe certain fans an apology.

    And if they admitted that "the character was poorly done" (which I don't think) then it is their failure. In other words, they didn't do a good job when they couldn't come up with something better for the character.

    Besides that, I still see no reason to bringing back "the poorly done" character they already had ditched only to ruin and destroy that character. Makes no sense.
     
  6. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What you say is true about how fans hate certain things but they still like greater aspects of Trek more. They may hate C/7 but they still like Voyager. TOS fand hate how Kirk died but they still like TOS. The difference is, they didn't stop liking or watching Trek just because of that. Some Kes fans stopped watching Voyager after she left, that's not the same thing.

    However, most fans wouldn't meet these men and be rude and ungrateful as to ask for an apology for anything. That's just bad manners and poor behavior. Braga appeared at this years big Creation Con. out in Las Vegas and everybody was polite. It's just a TV show, very, very few fans take Trek serously enough to want an apology. That's like having an entire house built for free but asking for an apology because you didn't like the bathroom tile. Who can be that pissed off over something like that? That makes no sense.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2008
  7. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Who wants cookies!

    Seriously guys, everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone has a right to post about said opinion. Sniping at each other isn't going to change that fact and it's dull for the other posters.

    Now let's have some eggnog and discuss something really interesting like Chakotay in leather or Robert Duncan O'Neill's smile. :D
     
  8. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If we did, you'd be giving us a warning for going off topic.;)

    Besides, why would two men be interested in talking about Chakotay in leather?
     
  9. Ezri II

    Ezri II Captain

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    Quark and Brent, hold it that is on DS9. Oh ya, they went back in time and talked to two gay men from San Fran ... hold it to gay. Thinking about it, talking about a man in leather with two men any way you cut it is way to gay.
     
  10. Jeri

    Jeri Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks kimc; and she wouldn't be guilty of entrapment, especially with Christmas cookies! Here, have one. What's your fave Christmas cookie...? I made a big batch of Swedish Spritz yesterday. They are awesome! Mis favoritos.
     
  11. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    I'm the only one who read the thread title as "Furry Kes"? :eek:
     
  12. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :lol:

    Yes, you are.
     
  13. Josh_Lyman

    Josh_Lyman Commander Red Shirt

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    I do not believe she was a Mirror Kes. She was the regular Kes and that episode showed how evil she really was. She was such a disgusting character and Lien was so horrible as an actress.
     
  14. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Now not anymore. :p
     
  15. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    And thank YOU for getting into the spirit of the thing. I'll even share my secret coffee stash to go with those cookies. :)

    As for you normally we'd call what you're doing here trolling but since it's Christmas I'll call it "scrooging". Since you're relatively new here I refer you to the rules posted in the Announcements thread at the top of the main menu. If you continue with this kind of behavior you'll get a warning. If you want to know why you should care about that then again refer to the rules.

    In the meantime:

    [soup guy] No cookies for YOU! [/soup guy]
     
  16. Jeri

    Jeri Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ ^ Swedish Spritz make excellent dunkers; I'll be right over!
     
  17. USS Fardell

    USS Fardell Captain Captain

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    I remember the message. But maybe there was a similar occurance in her home universe.

    Maybe. But that would not jive with Elogium being a one off event. (It would be Puberty, Pregnancy and then menopause all in a row...)

    I have not read those yet. Maybe I will.
     
  18. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Kes was never one of my favorite characters, but I never minded her. Occasionally I liked her. I always thought she was very cute for whatever that is worth.

    I think Fury was pretty lame. I would rather they had just not brought her back for that ep. If she became evil and it was well explained as a really good story I wouldn't mind so much. It wasn't a good ep. though, so it stands out as a bad piece of needless 'Oooh, look who went bad' cliche.
     
  19. B_L_T

    B_L_T Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I do not understand why people can think it not realy Kes? Nobody say in the episode that it not the real Kes so does that not mean that it was realy her? If they found some evidence that it was not real Kes how come they not say anything?

    I'm sorry I not read whole threat, it was long so I sorry if I repeat sometings.

    As I see, maybe I wrong, but there nothing surprising about how Kes come back. At the end she overcome her hostile feeling and become nice again
     
  20. Ezri II

    Ezri II Captain

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    KES MUST DIE !